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Carb Question

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I have 340 hp Mercruisers with Rochester Q-Jets. I'm thinking of getting the carbs rebuilt but have seen some good comments on new Edelbrock 1409/1410 carbs. Anybody have any thoughts/experience on switching to the Edelbrocks? Thanks.
Mike Ford
 
IF the carbs will bolt on with no changes - linkage fits, fuel lines fit, auto choke works, etc etc. Then it might be worth doing. Otherwise, I'd rebuild the Q jets.

NOTE: I am NOT a fan of Qjets and in many years of engine building, replaced them every time it was "legal." But properly rebuilt they are satisfactory and if carefully rebuilt/adjusted, they are actually pretty good - but don't expect that sort of adjustment to happen anywhere but at some sort of automotive machine shop that works on such carbs regularly. Any place that does a lot of work on NHRA "Stock" class engines will be good at rebuilding a Qjet for best operation. One of the main problems is that if it's an old Qjet, you have no idea what a previous owner did to them and wrong jets, wrong metering rods, STUPID air valve settings, etc are common.

So...if you do a rebuild, be sure that you or whoever's doing KNOWS to look for this sort of stuff. Also, Qjets were known for leaking at their casting plugs and for floats that would absorb gas and not float so well. Any qjet rebuild should include new floats, which are NOT part of a rebuild kit and a check to be sure that the casting plugs have been epoxied or, if not done, that it be done at this time. The epoxy on the casting plugs was a standard Qjet fix virtually since they came out in the '60's. If you do a search on "Quadrajet + epoxy" I'd bet money you will end up with MANY explanations of how to do it so I won't go into it here. Again, a good shop would do this automatically.
 
I replaced the carbs on my old Chris Craft 327's with the Edelbrocks and was very happy with them. I go them from Parts Automotive Warehouse (see: http://www.pawinc.com/). Do a search on Marine Carb and the 600CFM Edelbrock will come up at $337.95, and the 750 CFM is priced at $339.95. These are new in box, not rebuilt, carburators. They also have other makes, but these worked with my 1965 square bore intake manifolds.
Bob
 
I like Q-jets. They aren't to hard to rebuild.
 
You can't go wrong with the Edelbrock marine carbs. I put them on my last 2 boats what a carb. Make sure you buy the jet kit. There real easy to tune with the jet kit everything you need is in it. No new gaskets required when jetting. Antique Q-jets are junk compared to the Edelbrock. Q-jets were junk from the day one and are notorious for wasting fuel. They might be good for a drag car when all you doing is squirting gas into the motor for 3 seconds. They have no use on a boat motor. They could anchor your trout-line down or anchor a channel marker.:D

BILL
 
I must be missing something. I bought my boat in 2004 and use it every week and have yet to have a problem with my Q-jets. Maybe I'm just lucky. Ron
 
I don't think you are missing anything. As I noted previously, the Qjets work fine if they are properly set up. I'd guess that some of the issues they have were addressed. Though the casting leaks are common, it would probably be incorrect to say they ALL leak. And if they were epoxied in the past, the problem no longer exists anyway.

I had Crusaders in my previous boat and despite my inherent dislike for the Qjet, I did the rebuilds on them and they did a fine job. It was a lot cheaper than buying new carbs. BUT there is no doubt in my mind that a bad-running Qjet is much worse than a bad running carb of just about any other design. They are very complex compared to a standard Holley and it is easy to get them totally out of whack. If someone has replaced the metering rods you are hosed until you correct that and it's not one of those things one normally thinks about when doing a rebuild.

I have to admit that I always thought of them as being part of the "How can we make something that is inherently simple be as complicated as possible" school. But it's worth remembering that they were designed to provide reduced emissions while, at the same time, providing the performance expected in the muscle car era at WOT. Some would argue that they did neither job very well. ;)
 
The beauty of a Q-jet is that it is almost "auto-sensing" like modern fuel injection. It's truly a masterpiece of engineering.

And because of this complexity, people misunderstand and don't like it!
 
As far as it being a masterpiece of engineering...well, it has a LOT more moving parts than other carbs of its era, that's for sure! So if more parts make it a masterpiece, then perhaps it is! :)

What the Qjet did with it's nest of metering rods, etc, was an attempt to fine tune the mixture FOR EMISSIONS PURPOSES throughout the range of throttle opening. You have to remember again, that this was a carb SPECIFICALLY designed to meet ever-tightening emissions requirements when engines were not electronically controlled in any way. So the stepped metering rods were there to keep the metering adjusted to the leanest fuel delivery possible that would keep the engine running. Once at WOT, all the rods are clear and they have no effect on the mixture.

Of course, this lean setting that was good for emissions was not so good for midrange operation and led to complaints among the performance crowd about poor off-idle performance and general midrange operation though most folks in 4 door Oldsmobiles/whatever didn't really notice or care. SO...performance oriented owners changed the metering rods to aftermarket ones that would allegedly "correct" the problem. But often, as is frequently the case, owners figured if richening a little was good, richening a LOT was much better! So sometimes they are running very rich, especially when combined with floats that don't and leaky casting plugs. Folks also commonly changed the air valve adjustment so that the secondaries would open earlier - usually much too early - putting a huge "hole" in the power curve though giving the "feel" of "WOW" when the engine finally got enough RPM to actually use the airflow and "kicked it.". It felt "wow" but the car went substantially slower on the track. ;)

But again, the most important thing to remember about it is that it was a first generation EMISSIONS carburetor; that was its reason for being. The fact that it also came on GM performance cars was due to emissions, not due to GM's performance divisions wanting to use it. And, like many "first generation" emissions items, like Cat converters, airpumps, etc it met the Fed emissions requirements with the sacrifice of some driveability.

Marine Q jets have (at least they are SUPPOSED to have) different metering rods than automotive Qjets to provide a richer low/mid fuel mixture - this was essentially what the performance folks did with their car carbs though, of course, it was "illegal."

As I said before, they can be just fine but they do take some fiddling. It's not complex in the sense that "normal" folks can't work on them but someone who is not familiar with the quirks, "fixes" and the frequently-changed metering rods and who just slaps a NAPA "rebuild kit" in one may be quite disappointed if the stars didn't align (no leaking casting plugs, no non-floating floats, no wrong metering rods, etc)
 
If you rebuild the q jets do not use National Carburators in Jacksonville FL. I use to support them but their quality has gone to crap.
 
FWIW, have 600cfm Eldelbrock carbs on twin 350Ci Mercruiser’s/TRS drives in a 32’ Arena-Craft Offshore, they work very well. Switched from 650cfm DP Holly’s because of leaks after long periods of inactivity, (big fire hazards). The Eldelbrock’s are just modified AFB’s that have been around forever. The good news about them is they are very reliable, simple, and somewhat easy to tune via metering rods/jets; and they don’t leak. Bad news is they are not particularly efficient; the Q-jet is the most efficient as already stated. Purchased them from summit racing as marine re-mans for ~$275 each.
 
650 DP Holleys? Was that original with the engines? Seems an unusual combination. I built a lot of race and high-performance engines and spent a lot of time trying to discourage folks from putting DPs on anything but a drag racer! :)
 
650 DP Holleys? Was that original with the engines? Seems an unusual combination. I built a lot of race and high-performance engines and spent a lot of time trying to discourage folks from putting DPs on anything but a drag racer! :)

Not sure if they were original, the DP’s were on the engines when I purchased the boat (one of those “too good to be true” stories). My guess is they were not because the stock dual-plane intake was set up for Q-jets and the Holleys had the spacer/adapters. I agree with you… I am not a fan of the Holley DP’s or any Holley for that matter; nothing but trouble with leaks etc. Having said that, they are great for tuning purposes and instantaneous throttle response; have been running an 850 DP on an old 11-sec. street vett for years, not good on mileage but great fun when accelerating.
 
You guys will sugar coat anything. Quads on the whole were nothing but trouble from day one. Now admit it. You can't find any shops that can tune them correct. Once you need a rebuild you may as well junk them because most shops can't do a rebuild correct. If you want parts there hard to get. Just because you have them you don't have to feel bad. I have a friend that has them on his boat and he stocks 4 on a shelf in his work shop just so he always has a good one. What does that tell you. He sends all his out for rebuild. Because no one local can do it correct. But then most of them are on Chevy's and I don't like them either. :D Some people can make the Quad work, but for the average guy there a pain in the butt. Just like a 12 cylinder Jag. yeah you can make them go but at what cost? Why not get a carb that,s easy to work on, easy to tune, easy to get parts, trouble free and anyone that works on engines can tune it. I'll stick with my Hemi's. Just so you don't pound on Me to hard. I own a 88 SS Monti Carlo, an 07 Silverado 4 door 1500 truck and a 07 Chrysler Town & Country.

BILL
 
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They can be rebuilt if the castings are OK and the person doing them has basic skills. I have done hundreds over the years and the only issues were when the castings were warped.

If you can buy a new marine one for $275 it's not a bad idea but I have redone many for about $30 with gaskets, floats and basic kits.
 
You guys will sugar coat anything. Quads on the whole were nothing but trouble from day one. Now admit it. You can't find any shops that can tune them correct. Ounce you need a rebuild you may as well junk them because most shops can't do a rebuild correct. If you want parts there hard to get. Just because you have them you don't have to feel bad. I have a friend that has them on his boat and he stocks 4 on a shelf in his work shop just so he always has a good one. What does that tell you. He sends all his out for rebuild. Because no one local can do it correct. But then most of them are on Chevy's and I don't like them either. :D Some people can make the Quad work, but for the average guy there a pain in the butt. Just like a 12 cylinder Jag. yeah you can make them go but at what cost? Why not get a carb that,s easy to work on, easy to tune, easy to get parts, trouble free and anyone that works on engines can tune it. I'll stick with my Hemi's. Just so you don't pound on Me to hard. I own a 88 SS Monti Carlo, an 07 Silverado 4 door 1500 truck and a 07 Chrysler Town & Country.




BILL


Bill, what version Hemi's do you have, 1st gen 392, 2nd gen 426, or newest in your 07' T&C?
 
I had the first Hemi in a 1960 drag car like Don Garlet had. In fact it was one of his engines from his Swamp Rat cars. That was when I was young and rich and single. I had the new style hemi in a truck that was wrecked. I had to many interest like a family, flying, boats and motorcycles to fork over and spend the money for the really good 426 series hemi.s. My X-brother in-law had a Cuda with the big hemi when they first came out. What a ride. He sold it 2 years later and he is still kicking his butt.

BILL
 
Apples and Oranges...all GMs of that era came with Qjets. Hemi Mopars came with Carter AFBs which were great carbs and about as simple a carb could be. Of course, most folks took off the two AFBs and put a pair of some sort of (usually too big) Holleys just because...well, just because that's what everybody did! ;)

It would be more fair to compare the Qjet to the Carter Thermo-quad which was Carter's "answer" to the Qjet.
 
I had both q jets rebuilt and if I had to do it over again and had the extra money I would have tried out the Edelbroch carbs, they are reported to be excellent replacements and some claim better fuel economy.
 

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