Captain's School

[Sparky1]

Got an email from a Sea Ray dealer down in Chattanooga informing me there will be a class held there later this year. This is probably as close distance wise as I'll get in terms of going through such a course, but I was wondering if any of you are familiar with True Courses.

http://www.truecourses.com/

They don't list their fees on their site, but I'll call tomorrow and get the full scoop. This is something I've been considering doing for quite some time now, so this may just be the time and place to do it.

 

[Sparky1]

So has nobody ever heard of this outfit or what?

 

[tim45haley]

No

 

[Sparky1]

Ok

 

[Sparky1]

Come on guys, help a brother out. These guys do it all including the physical and the testing. I'm thinking I'd be better off to have my own doctor administer the physical part, especially where the color-blindness issue comes into play.

There's no doubt I'm color-blind to an extent, but it didn't keep me from getting my CDL a few years back. I can see red, green, and yellow easily enough, but those little dot tests screw me up big time. Surely that won't affect my getting a Captain's license.

 

[Bill Allen]

I've done the test twice (dumb ass forgot to renew) first time on my own. Second took a sea school class. Did everything there, way easier although all they teach is the answers to the test. I always sugest people take the course method. The thing about the class method is it's mostly the person teaching it. I had one guy that was fun (had two instructor for the week long course) seemed to be a knowledgeable guy and then there was the other. In fairness I didn't think I really learned anything I didn't know already. That said they did a good job teaching both the answers and how to understand the questions. It's sorta like a dipolma mill. I'd ask what percentage of their people pass the test thats the only thing that matters. That'll make you a gold plated capt. sit around yackin with all the other bigtime capts. maybe get a hat and a shirt sayin "capt. Sparky" the man the myth the legend. (LOL) Bill er Capt. Bill

 

[Pete]

Just to pass along something I was told a long time ago, without comment. The source was a marine insurance agent, many years in the business, at least the insurance business. To para-phase what he said: If you need a captains license to do something, get it. If you are doing it just to have one, consider that if you are involved in an accident and end up in court, having a captains license will result in you being held to a higher standard of performance than a person without one.

Pete

 

[Bill Allen]

Another folk legend. Although I will admit it's a bit of work if you don't need it. Then you need your twic, drug pool, and of course the renewals which sooner or later they'll charge for that as well,. When I first got my ticket they wouldn't even give me a discount on my pleasure boat insurance, but they did give me one for an old power squardon course I took. My personal feelings on a liscnse is they mean nothing unless you want to run something thats chartered. Like a drivers liscnse doesn't mean you should be driving just means you passed the test. Bill

 

[Pascal]

the higher standard is an urban legend, never has anyone shown a case where a captain was held to a higher standard while driving his own boat. If you do take on paid passengers, then yes you will be, rightfully, held to a higher standard.

never heard of "true course"... these classes are only designed to get you thru the test, you're not going to learn much, if anything. the tests are ridiculously easy for anyone who's been on the water for a while and studies / refreshes the nav rules a bit.

 

[Bill Allen]

Other then the rules of the road, day shapes and night lighting it wasn't a biggie. When I sat at the CG for my first test almost 20 years ago I had a bunch of questions on 100 ton boats. AT the time they threw me for a bit of a loop. Other then that just what Pascal said. Bill

 

[Pete]

Bill, let me offer a different view of the agent's statement. Focus on our system of justice. If you do end up in court, there is a jury of 12 folks that make the decisions. So, considering his statement a folk legend is really a nonsequitur, it is not a fact that can be proved or disproved. What we are discussing is would a jury of 12 random people, who could not get excused from jury duty, be influenced by an attorney pointing out that his opposition is an "educated, tested, licensed, and experienced captain" where as his man "Joe six pack" did not have the experience to know better. The agent's point was there will always be one or more jurors that will believe this is significant, and when combined with the fact that you are a "yacht owner" and poor Joe six pack needs new shoes, Joe will get the sympathy vote. Having been on a couple of juries, I have been amazed at what thoughts are offered during deliberation. My classic from about 10 years ago was a female juror who said "did you see the wife when she was on the witness stand, she had her fingers crossed, so we know everything she said was a lie".

Pete

 

[Bill Allen]

Well, still all that aside. I don't think when I quit running a dive boat (hey want to talk about court) I won't be turnning in my ticket. Now if I do a dumb ass thing that is way my fault I have insurance, let them fight it out. Of course the most important thing is never hit anything, keep your ass covered. Liabilty is liabilty somehing we all face daily. My ticket make me more "liable" o well. But like I said before it's an urban legend. Besides admirmality laws a tad difernet. Bill

 

[Boatsb]

Well, still all that aside. I don't think when I quit running a dive boat (hey want to talk about court) I won't be turnning in my ticket. Now if I do a dumb ass thing that is way my fault I have insurance, let them fight it out. Of course the most important thing is never hit anything, keep your ass covered. Liabilty is liabilty somehing we all face daily. My ticket make me more "liable" o well. But like I said before it's an urban legend. Besides admirmality laws a tad difernet. Bill

Bill your insurance covers you. If someone is not insured and is on a boat that is involved in an incident there is the chance of losing alot of money.

 

[Sparky1]

I've done the test twice (dumb ass forgot to renew) first time on my own. Second took a sea school class. Did everything there, way easier although all they teach is the answers to the test. I always sugest people take the course method. The thing about the class method is it's mostly the person teaching it. I had one guy that was fun (had two instructor for the week long course) seemed to be a knowledgeable guy and then there was the other. In fairness I didn't think I really learned anything I didn't know already. That said they did a good job teaching both the answers and how to understand the questions. It's sorta like a dipolma mill. I'd ask what percentage of their people pass the test thats the only thing that matters. That'll make you a gold plated capt. sit around yackin with all the other bigtime capts. maybe get a hat and a shirt sayin "capt. Sparky" the man the myth the legend. (LOL) Bill er Capt. Bill

"Capt. Sparky", that would look great on a resume huh?

I've been planning to get my Captain's license for quite some time, but things have just never worked out with my schedule. I'm looking at it as one of those things you're better off to have and not need than need and not have. Quite frankly, I've had the opportunities to be paid for doing something I enjoy, but not having my ticket wouldn't allow that. I still haven't given up on the idea of making the 58 into a bed and brothel, so this would be needed for that as well.

I'm certainly not opposed to learning something new, but if they'd just let me write them a check for a license, I'd be fine with that. Lord knows I've put in my time, but I'm not really sure how I'll go about documenting it other than letting them read this forum which should take care of the past few years. Past that, I guess I'll just have to pull insurance records on all the boats I've owned over the years and be creative.

 

[Bill Allen]

I really don't want to wander into the insurance discussion issue. I'm a tad touchy on that one. Between the dive shop, dive boat, my Hatt, my other business and vehicles to just name a few. Never would I really count on insurance to cover my butt. Insurance is most times a joke they'll bail on ya in a minute. Just my .02 cents. Bill

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Do they offer a 50 ton ticket with a single screw endorsement??? ws

 

[Sparky1]

Do they offer a 50 ton ticket with a single screw endorsement??? ws

They may after they take a look at my resume! LOL

 

[Pascal]

the 100t exam has a lot of stuff that we dont' use, like load lines, cargo block and tackle and stability so it's a little more tricky than the 6 pack but there isn't a lot to remember anyway. most of the 100t test is an open book test, where you are just required to look up some of the requirements in the CFRs (safety equip. etc...)


Pete, one coud turn it around and claim that a licensed captain knows the rules better and is trained to handle various situation better. so in a he said/she said case, the license can actually help... but again, no on has ever come up with a case where a licensed captain operating his own boat NOT for hire was held to a higher standard.

 

[Brian Degulis]

Bill, let me offer a different view of the agent's statement. Focus on our system of justice. If you do end up in court, there is a jury of 12 folks that make the decisions. So, considering his statement a folk legend is really a nonsequitur, it is not a fact that can be proved or disproved. What we are discussing is would a jury of 12 random people, who could not get excused from jury duty, be influenced by an attorney pointing out that his opposition is an "educated, tested, licensed, and experienced captain" where as his man "Joe six pack" did not have the experience to know better. The agent's point was there will always be one or more jurors that will believe this is significant, and when combined with the fact that you are a "yacht owner" and poor Joe six pack needs new shoes, Joe will get the sympathy vote. Having been on a couple of juries, I have been amazed at what thoughts are offered during deliberation. My classic from about 10 years ago was a female juror who said "did you see the wife when she was on the witness stand, she had her fingers crossed, so we know everything she said was a lie".

Pete[/QUOTE)

The rules are the rules if you were sitting on a jury would you hold a driver of a car with 30 years of experience to a higher standard than a recently licensed teenager. Probably not in fact you would probably be more inclined to believe the more experienced driver. I think if anything the licensed operator would have a slight advantage for the same reason.

Brian

 

[Pete]

What is being discussed back and forth is at its core, prejudice created in the mind of jurors by statements of attorneys, in this case the advantage of a captain license. As I noted in my first reply, I am not offering an opinion on the statement of the insurance agent. And I agree there never was a case that had confirmed juror influence, due to a captains license. Probably never will be in the future as people do not talk about their prejudice's.

Not to take this to a new level, but just to try an emphasize the point, why do almost all defendants get cleaned up, a hair cut, a new suit (if allowed by the court) and show up looking like a respectable "normal" citizen. Answer, to avoid possible juror prejudice due to his appearance. And has there ever been a case on confirmed juror prejudice due to appearance? Not a chance.

This simply comes down to your opinion of jurors. This is not a right or wrong discussion, not a discussion of what the rules say, just what will influence a juror. Given my experience as a juror, and my observation of the other people who get selected as jurors, the more variables you can eliminate in their deliberation, the better off you are. As best I have been able to discern, the jury selection process is not an IQ test. For the most part, it looks like a search for a couple of thinkers and the remainder blank minds.

It would be interesting if we have a HOF member or two that are attorney's to offer their thoughts.

Pete