boating accident

[Pascal]

Having logged over 30k nm over the past 5 years from New England to the Bahamas, about half of that single handling a 70 footer, I can tell you that there are no legal minimum crew requirement and insurance underwriters do not require a minimum crew either. They do require enough experience and a clean accident free record. I have been boarded by the USCG a couple of times while alone on board and they didn't question why I was single handling. It s pretty common.

You don't need two people to maintain a proper watch underway on a recreational vessel, whether it is 40', 60' or 90'... What you need is discipline so if you need to use th head, grab a bite or check the ER, you stop the boat. Simple.

If you are in a busy area, you check the radar to make sure no large vessels are approaching you and if you are going to have to spend time below to address a mechanical issue, you put out a securite call indicating your position and status to other vessels.

Problem is that people take shortcuts, rely on electronics and get in trouble.

 

[Boatsb]

Legal or not its not the best way to do things.

I dont log hours single handed in fact Boating is a social event not a job for me in that capacity. With 10's of thousand of miles under my belt I can say I always had at least 2 people on board for anything but a local run. 3 or more is better and for round the clock runs no less than 4.

When needing to go on deck I always liked having 2 people go as they could help each other if need arises. When steering a second set of eyes on watch is a plus, a bathroom / galley run buddy is good to have. I never was without willing crew to take a journey. Even Randy found a few volunteers for the crossings and longer runs with the crippled 58

You never know when weather or mechanical issues will arrise. If you venture offshore there will be times it gets rough. To think you are infalable and don't need help is just the rantings of an ego maniac.


By the way. When transporting ( delivering boats ) I insist on a captain and a mate minimum. I have done many trips myself and arrainged for others to do more. I would never risk someone elses vessel like that.

 

[Freeebird]

I have to agree with Pascal on this one. Having two or more people onboard means nothing if neither are paying attention. In fact, it could be argued that when single handing, the operator is going to be more focused. Now, if you're going offshore beyond cell and VHF range, that's a whole other story where safety is concerned. Having an incapacitating medical emergency is about the only thing that would concern me otherwise.

 

[Boatsb]

I have to agree with Pascal on this one. Having two or more people onboard means nothing if neither are paying attention. In fact, it could be argued that when single handing, the operator is going to be more focused. Now, if you're going offshore beyond cell and VHF range, that's a whole other story where safety is concerned. Having an incapacitating medical emergency is about the only thing that would concern me otherwise.

Look your tenna sea river rat. That's what I meant. I was not referring to passengers but able bodied crew. I almost never ran inshore. Having a second capable hand is necessary. It's smart and it's safer. If you want passengers that's fine but even on the 53 Westport I ran to the transport ship I had 2 capable people on board and paying attention the whole time. We didn't count the strippers as crew.

We don't send a captain to run a boat without a mate. If the customer can't pay for both he shouldn't own a boat. It's for his vessels safety. Sadly the going rate for captains and crew is so low it embarrassing to hear some of these guys trying to cut a lower cost deal.

 

[rsmith]

5 whole years WOW who could argue with that!

Having logged over 30k nm over the past 5 years from New England to the Bahamas, about half of that single handling a 70 footer, I can tell you that there are no legal minimum crew requirement and insurance underwriters do not require a minimum crew either. They do require enough experience and a clean accident free record. I have been boarded by the USCG a couple of times while alone on board and they didn't question why I was single handling. It s pretty common.

You don't need two people to maintain a proper watch underway on a recreational vessel, whether it is 40', 60' or 90'... What you need is discipline so if you need to use th head, grab a bite or check the ER, you stop the boat. Simple.

If you are in a busy area, you check the radar to make sure no large vessels are approaching you and if you are going to have to spend time below to address a mechanical issue, you put out a securite call indicating your position and status to other vessels.

Problem is that people take shortcuts, rely on electronics and get in trouble.

 

[rsmith]

I have to agree with Pascal on this one. Having two or more people onboard means nothing if neither are paying attention. In fact, it could be argued that when single handing, the operator is going to be more focused. Now, if you're going offshore beyond cell and VHF range, that's a whole other story where safety is concerned. Having an incapacitating medical emergency is about the only thing that would concern me otherwise.

It's all swell till something happens.

 

[Pascal]

So using this "logic" solo flying should be banned...

 

[Boatsb]

So using this "logic" solo flying should be banned...

I believe it is in the Commercial passenger world with few exceptions.

I figure the Co pilot does more than get coffee.


Although can you send someone to fix and engine in flight?

 

[capttonyf]

So using this "logic" solo flying should be banned...

NO, Absolutely not, solo running should NOT be banned. We don't need the Gov't telling us more of what we can and can't do.

What I'm saying, and I believe the others are trying to say is it's just not a good idea to travel alone if you can have someone else come along. In a few rare occasions I've moved boats around locally, single handed because it was last minute and I was in a pinch BUT, I would not recommend it. Example: Last year I moved our boat to the Yard, "Alone, All by Myself" and had my father pick me up. Not a big deal, but I'm not travelling that way.

Like mentioned earlier in the thread if an owner won't pay for me to take along a mate then I'm not running his boat, simple as that. We're talking about boats that burn hundreds of dollars an hour in fuel and if he's cutting corners on a $100 to $150 a day Mate it makes me wonder what else he's cutting corners on. I just believe it's a safety issue, and my EGO does NOT get in the way of me saying I need help. Could I do it alone, YES, will I, or do I want to do it alone, NOPE. I just don't see a good reason. Maybe that's the Million Dollar Question.

My apologies, this isn't meant to be derogatory in any way I'm just trying to get a better understanding of WHY. The Million Dollar question for those of you that are willing to deliver a boat all by yourself is, and you can't answer by saying "I'm trying to save the rich guy a few dollars", because a mate for a few days is like pissing on a forest fire compared to the yearly cost of owning a large yacht.

Question:

1. What is a GOOD Reason on Why you would you want to, or why you would you be willing to deliver Someone else's Yacht all by yourself. There are plenty of quality mates and or other captains that would be willing to go and make a little money?

I'm anxiously awaiting for some answers.

Thanks

Tony

 

[Pascal]

This is not about deliveries or your own boat. It s not about saving money which indeed is pretty much a drop in the bucket when looking at the big picture.

This was about how running a boat solo can increase the risks of an accident like the one this thread is about where someone suggested you cannot maintain a proper watch without crew.

To answer your specific question, first I m not sure how good a $100 a day mate will be... Good enough to take over in open water but not usually much more. Beyond that I guess I have never asked myself why not having a mate on the boat but instead, do I need a mate. I have never felt the need so why bother

 

[Freeebird]

1. What is a GOOD Reason on Why you would you want to, or why you would you be willing to deliver Someone else's Yacht all by yourself. There are plenty of quality mates and or other captains that would be willing to go and make a little money?

I'm anxiously awaiting for some answers.

Thanks

Tony

Well, far be it from me to leave you hanging.

This thread has just turned into the typical pissing contest, but as for a GOOD reason, it really boils down to money. As for myself, do I feel like I have to have crew to safely run a boat along the coastline, ICW, or inland waterway? Nope.

Do I prefer running solo? Nope.

I've just always let the owner decide. Sure, there is a certain degree of risk in operating ANY motorized vehicle, but I dare say nobody on here gives a second thought to operating an automobile solo on a two lane road with a closing speed of 120 MPH where you are less than 8 feet away from a deadly crash. Makes running a 70 footer alone seem pretty dang safe.

 

[capttonyf]

This is not about deliveries or your own boat. It s not about saving money which indeed is pretty much a drop in the bucket when looking at the big picture.

This was about how running a boat solo can increase the risks of an accident like the one this thread is about where someone suggested you cannot maintain a proper watch without crew.

To answer your specific question, first I m not sure how good a $100 a day mate will be... Good enough to take over in open water but not usually much more. Beyond that I guess I have never asked myself why not having a mate on the boat but instead, do I need a mate. I have never felt the need so why bother

Thanks for your insight. I get it about the thread, and I did mention, I believe it's a safety issue. Not only that it's an extra set of eyes but you have an extra person to talk with or keep you from possibly falling asleep, and yes unfortunalety it happens and it can be the difference between having an accident or not. That being said even 10 idiot people can be worse than having one good Captain.

Now this is Only My Opinion but I believe all things being equal 2 or more is better than 1. God forbid you fall and break your Leg, or hit your head and knock yourself unconsious, get a concussion or worse yet slip and fall overboard. Even an inexpierienced person can follow the plotter, shut the boat down, turn around, and or call for help, but if your by yourself your TOAST.

I was in Port Lucaya and all hell broke loose at the marina because a few Bahamians spotted a CC Fishing Boat trolling with no one in it. They pulled along side and jump in, called for help and turned around and followed It's GPS Track to find the guy swimming for his life. He said he slipped and fell overboard and had been in the water for 2 to 3 hours. If he had someone with him he would have been in the water for 2 to 3 minutes. He got very lucky, and it taught me a lesson of why I don't want to be offshore alone.

I know you said "I never felt the need, so why bother." I can tell you, and again it's my opinion, this is a good reason of need, and even if everyhting goes perfectly with the trip MY need is also companionship, just someone to talk to, boating would be very boring to me if I was all alone.

Tony

 

[Freeebird]

Look your tenna sea river rat. That's what I meant. I was not referring to passengers but able bodied crew. I almost never ran inshore. Having a second capable hand is necessary. It's smart and it's safer. If you want passengers that's fine but even on the 53 Westport I ran to the transport ship I had 2 capable people on board and paying attention the whole time. We didn't count the strippers as crew.

We don't send a captain to run a boat without a mate. If the customer can't pay for both he shouldn't own a boat. It's for his vessels safety. Sadly the going rate for captains and crew is so low it embarrassing to hear some of these guys trying to cut a lower cost deal.

Embarrassingly low? Seems to me there was recent discussion that the going rate for captains was somewhere north of $400 per day. Feel free to embarrass me anytime you like.

 

[Boatsb]

Embarrassingly low? Seems to me there was recent discussion that the going rate for captains was somewhere north of $400 per day. Feel free to embarrass me anytime you like.

Sadly the rate here is closer to $250 / $150 for captain and mate. That's $400 total.

 

[Pascal]

Obviously it depends where you are, what kind of schedule you are on and what kind of boat you are running.

I probably wouldn't ever run a sportfish alone as indeed the odds of falling overboard are higher than on a MY with railing all around. Or a MY with only transom ER access with no safety railing on the platform, I woudl probably also be reluctant to single hand it or at the very least take precautions on every trip down the ER ( inflatable PFD and waterproof VHF in my pocket). Also noticed how many European boats don't have rub rails? that pretty much means you must have someone to adjust fenders while docking to single handling is out...

Any trip requiring round th clock passage woudl also require extra crew.

As to injuries or medical emergencies, sure anything is possible but as Randy said 120mph closing speed on a highway and just a heart attack, stroke or dizzy spell away from death is hardly safe when you think about it...

As usual it s not black or white but shades of grey... Hence my personal view that it s more a question of not feeling the need for a mate because the boat I run really doesn't require it.

As to companionship, I guess it comes down to personality. I do enjoy spending a few days alone once in a while not even docking and eating dinner out but instead anchoring out. Again personal preference.

 

[Boatsb]

Obviously it depends where you are, what kind of schedule you are on and what kind of boat you are running.

I probably wouldn't ever run a sportfish alone as indeed the odds of falling overboard are higher than on a MY with railing all around. Or a MY with only transom ER access with no safety railing on the platform, I woudl probably also be reluctant to single hand it or at the very least take precautions on every trip down the ER ( inflatable PFD and waterproof VHF in my pocket). Also noticed how many European boats don't have rub rails? that pretty much means you must have someone to adjust fenders while docking to single handling is out...

Any trip requiring round th clock passage woudl also require extra crew.

As to injuries or medical emergencies, sure anything is possible but as Randy said 120mph closing speed on a highway and just a heart attack, stroke or dizzy spell away from death is hardly safe when you think about it...

As usual it s not black or white but shades of grey... Hence my personal view that it s more a question of not feeling the need for a mate because the boat I run really doesn't require it.

As to companionship, I guess it comes down to personality. I do enjoy spending a few days alone once in a while not even docking and eating dinner out but instead anchoring out. Again personal preference.

I guess the lower center of gravity and the cockpit walls are not as safe as a raised deck and handrails.

 

[Pascal]

A ladder down from the flybridge as found on so many SF certainly isn't...
Neither are Railings not reaching all the way to the cockpit...

 

[Boatsb]

A ladder down from the flybridge as found on so many SF certainly isn't...
Neither are Railings not reaching all the way to the cockpit...

But you don't need to go out on the sides of the SF when your running. They rock and roll less. Have better sea keeping abilities. Have internal access to the engines. Mostly a safer vessel to run in rough waters. They also have bow hatches to get to the lines.

 

[rsmith]

So using this "logic" solo flying should be banned...

HELLOOOOOO. Heavy and complex aircraft require 2 pilots.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I'd want my boat delivered by two people. As a matter of fact, the last time she was moved by anyone other than me, there WERE two people on her, both qualified to run the boat alone if need be. That's the kind of staffing you need, IMHO. Yacht deliveries aren't cheap. I think the extra cost of a second qualified person on board is well worth it.