boat prices

[double trouble]

I think someone forgot to tell the people listing their boats on yachtworld. I took a look after reading this thread and the prices for most are still up there. But most have been listed for quite some time. Just my 2 cents worth. Steve

 

[spindrift]

FYI

I was in the market for a 53MY last year and have renewed my search for the past 120 days and been truly astounded at how much the prices have dropped. The difference between ask and trading price seems to vary with the initial ask. Many of the boats on Yacht World are not seriously for sale. The ones that are priced reasonably actually do sell.

The key is to ask the listing or buyer's broker for a list of sold boats over the past year or better yet 6 months. You will find that if you eliminate the top 1 or 2 high priced sales and eliminate the lowest price sale (economist refer to these as outlying) that the boats actually trade in a very narrow 10% range. I have done this for the 1980-1985 boats, talked to the brokers of the boats actually sold to assess any adjustment for deficiencies to confirm.

I am now quite comfortable as to what I will do on a couple of good candidates that I have viewed. I am probably going to wait it out another 3-4 months to let the rest of bad economic news work its way through the market and then make my realistic offer.

As a side note. Unfortunately, some owners have spent a great deal of time and money on their boats with the end result actually being a reduction in value. Economist call this negative value added. This is typical of many of the Florida boats that I am going to avoid. I think if money is spent on the basics: engines, bottom repair, and keeping everything on the boat that was factory installed working properly that is the best approach.

For example, I noted one boat lying outside of Detroit that was just terrible... the worst paint job I think I have ever seen... and modifications to the fly bridge that would have to be reversed to make the boat usable. Another boat in Ft. Lauderdale had the aft cabin modified from the original twins to a king.. and not done properly. To boot, the beautiful Hatteras teak interior was covered in wall covering making her look like a punked out Broward.

I acknowledge that I tend to over analyze these matters but I am an economist and B School prof... and this is the way I think and approach major decisions.... and also the way I advise my corporate consulting clients.

DWM

 

[SeaEric]

Spindrift is quite correct in that properly priced boats are selling. A call to the listing broker can, many times, give you a clue as to a deal to be had.

The main question to ask is: Why is this boat for sale? The best answer that you want to hear is "The owner is getting out of boating" Follow up on that one.

The answer you do NOT want to hear is: "The owner wants a bigger boat" That answer is code for: "we need every penny out of this one to buy the next". 2 boat owner can mean that the attention is now on the new boat and this one is now neglected.

The best buying scenario is a well heeled seller who has been boating for a lifetime, has a well maintained boat, paid for, and has reached the point that it's time for the boat to be gone. I have recently sold some true gems for very reasonable prices in this scenario.

All of this counts that you are buying for your personal use and moderate to long term ownership. You guys who think you can buy and flip for a profit in this market- Forget it. For a speculative purchase, you can't even buy it cheap enough. Cost of ownership (care and feeding) during the time that may be required for marketing could easily deplete and potential upside.

 

[34Hatt]

Anybody else notice the winning bidders name???

Winning bidder: walkrmrine( 107)

That to me looks like the short version of walkermarine or something real close!!!

 

[REBrueckner]

I'm not sure I agree that "I want a bigger boat" is bad to hear from an owner. If his/her attention is focused on a real good buy for example, it's more likely the individual recognizes the weakness in the market...and may want to move quickly. And especially if the owner has "fallen in love" with his next conquest, well, his loss of inetrest in the current boat that you want may be just the recipe for a deal.

But getting some feedback from an owner, preferably face to face is an unbeatable way to figure out if the /boat/owner/mood is right for you. Nothing is worse than having a broker between you and the buyer who doesn't know the individual boat, really doesn't know the brand strengths and weaknesses, doesn't know the owner priorities, and fails to recognize communication between buyer and seller can be an essential ingredient.

Most owners, like us, LOVE to talk about their boats and when you find one who is open and enthusiastic and knows their boat it really aids in assessing the boat. Likewise an owner who knows nothing is also revealing but in not so positive a way!!

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Spindrift,
I think I know the boat that you are talking about in Detroit. If it's a 1979 that's painted bright white, then I know who owns it. My brother-in-law used to work for the guy. It's been on the market for a long time and has failed at least one survey. Next time you might want to ask here about a particular boat before you waste your time going to look at it. I'm always surprised what people know on here about most of the Hatts that are on the market.

 

[Bill Allen]

In my situation I can't agree with the moving up or even down for that matter. I'm in that situation. As a matter of fact after putting an offer in on a boat the admiral, when we went back to our boat, commented "what are we crazy" which is one of the reasons I have redirected what I will consider. If the boat doesn't sell no problem she's a great boat, if she does sell I supose i'll take a beatting. But it's boatting, not investing. Just my .02 worth. Bill

 

[dmichaudri]

Sky Cheney

Thanks for the advice on the Detroit boat. You are indeed correct about her. Fortunately I was in Detroit anyway for an antique auction. The wife was quite unhappy with the snow white Hat but loved the painting and jewelry that I puchased for her at the auction. Got me out the dog house!

Cheers

 

[Maynard Rupp]

I looked at that boat over a year ago. Bright white is bad, not much else is great either. The engine rooms have massive hanging lead vinyl sound blankets. YUK!!

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I looked at that boat over a year ago. Bright white is bad, not much else is great either. The engine rooms have massive hanging lead vinyl sound blankets. YUK!!

That's the one. If anyone needs more info on her, just send me a PM. The boat was listed for some time while the owner was not really looking to sell, just fishing. From what I hear now he has bought something bigger and is going into the charter business. I think it's REALLY for sale now.

 

[tomrealest]

Good Thread! I agree with Spindrift on pricing but I would make offers now during the winter. I looked at over 25 boats and bought the best one I saw and have no regrets after six years. Maintaining her in excellent condition has been more expensive that I thought. I have never owned anything that I have gotten more enjoyment out of. I bought a ragged out 46 Hatt convertible three years ago and it has been a money pit. I am happy with the finished product but I made my mistakes. The first and biggest one was I paid too much. Hatts are the greatest boats. If you buy them right, and this is the market to do that in, you can end up what with a wonderful experience. Double what you think you will spend on her and hope and it won't be more than that.

 

[ADaily3224]

A quick note about e Bay. On any given day I have between 250 and 350 vehicles listed for sale. Don't for a minute gauge the market because it appears someone purchased a listing. On average 35% to 40% of the so called sales never happen, or were never intended to happen. I'm not suggesting the sale of the 53 is invalid, I'm saying that e Bay is not a good gauge of the market.

Tony D

 

[Genesis]

Yeah, one of the issues with eBay is that vehicle sales OFTEN fall through. So does real estate by the way....

 

[spindrift]

One discouraging note on this topic. Over the past 120 days I have looked at a number of 53MYs (and also a 60MY) and noted that a couple went under agreement while I was looking. In each case the broker telephoned me later and advised that the sellers were having trouble obtaining financing or got cold feet when they realized the total cost committment. The brokers asked me to may any offer as the sellers are tired of the process.

I think if you are buying a boat, it is only ethical that you speak with your marine lender ahead of time to ensure that you are qualified to purchase the boat you are looking at. Additionally, I am surprised at how many buyers really don't undertand the ongoing expense of taking care of a fine yacht such as a Hatteras: dockage or a secure mooring, a secure winter storage facility (inside would be best), insurance, and a good mechanic / systems man to work with you (preferably at your side) to keep the systems and vessel in yacht condtion. Also, the required reserves that need to be set aside for periodic upgrades on systems and finishes.

I have done this in the past when operating and later selling large vessels. In the long run it best for the owner to sit down with a perspective purchaser and go through a budget of what is involved in operating the boat; what you can do by yoursef and what requires outside help. If you do this, your boat will ultimately find a good home and you will have a good realtionsip with the new owner. Also, I think the transaction is likely to go far more smoothly and have higher probability of closing.

Interestingly, I sold one of my former boats, a 52' Sailboat, to a Canadian family 10 years ago. I was completely transparent with them with respect to what I did to keep the vessel in yacht condtion. They appreciated this geatly as they went forward with the purchase with solid information and experienced no surprises after the sale was consumated. They still correspond with me and I have been sailing with them on the my former boat in Canada and Europe. I think this is the ideal situation for how things should work on the water.

Far too many buyers (I have seen this in large sailing vessels as well as power) do not undertand the level of committment necessary to ensure a safe, reliable yachting experience.

My motto is to take care of the Lady and she will take care of me.

See you on the water
DWM