Boat Market

[Bill Allen]

I've got to agree with Karl, been in business for about 30+ years diferent business until about 25 years ago. We are in Pa. and service, sell and repair industrial air compressors. Yes the market has changed as the large smoke stacks have mostle gone away. But there is a large segement of smaller industry still here even some new business. We sell more new equipment each year and have just closed our best year ever, yes it a battle every day, but being in business is always hard work. Ten years ago my son and I started a scuba shop. The industry joke is if you want to make a million dollars start with two million. Wrong again, a very tough business but profitable and you can make money if you work and don't let yourself get bogged down with outdated ideas. Personally I think it's a great time, i'm not rich nor will I ever be but I lead a good life. Try to stay away from loans and watch my money. I always am amused by people crying poor sell the condos, boats, toys and you'll live large. If not work harder, smarter and maybe do without a couple of things you really didn't need anyway. Just my opion, Bill

 

[CARL GUZMAN]

My .02 cents ...I can only tell you my local story in respect to Florida economy and the dredfull BUBBLE.... well alot started with the ( unethical )mortgage brokers coming on strong in the late 90's and early 2000's faulsifying documents to push there mortgage's thru to help bury some of there clients and driving up the cost of home buying. I seen people with 300k loans and not even a checking account brokers working out of there home with white-out and scissors to stick deals together and inflate the housing bubble ...Where was RESPA ? to protect the lenders ? the lenders didn't complain as long as payments where made on time , but now with all the foreclousures they are crying the blues and now investigating there deals to find fraud everywhere when ceo's new it but did nothing.Then in 2005 theres no one left to buy and many have over three homes and neg-amort mortgages and then pressure comes down on the illeagals and lots leave town increasing the number of homes vacant and lowering the rent prices and we get hit by multiple hurricanes and insurances have a hay day ( without any regulation ) and double and triple some policys and then the property taxes adjust for all that speculative buying and taxes hit hard at the same time insurance doubles
If a home buyer lies on documents to get a home what do you think they'll do to keep it !!!!!
I feel the country is getting more and more corrupt every year and letting more third world country people in (that opperate in corruption) will only make things worse...
We need to police our own , and don't be affraid of law suits if someone does wrong and you do nothing they will keep doing wrong

 

[Bill Allen]

Personally I think were getting old and sounding like our fathers. Bitching keeps you busy, rather than worrying about impotant stuff. Sure there's a ton of thieves and crooks always has been always will be. It truely is and always has been about greed and taking the easy way out. We many times ignore it if it doesn't impact us directly but when it does like chicken little... Well i'm putting away my soapbox i'm on vacation and i think it's time for an adult beverage and a dip in the pool. Bill

 

[thoward]

Karl, thanks for the lesson in US economics but you failed to notice I referred to my LOCAL economy......As far as "permanent wealth", again it has nothing to do with business growth which is what I referenced.

 

[MikeP]

Personally I think were getting old and sounding like our fathers



Absolutely right! I can't believe how many times I've found myself saying what my father said..the very same things I SWORE in my teens I would never say. We do sound like a bunch of BOFs!

 

[(Nobody You Know)]

Capt Bill where in N.C. do you have those slips? Are they rented and if not how much do you want? I'm in New Bern and I've been told I may have to leave due to new condo's and the marina selling the slips. Don't know if thats the case however was thginking of taking the boat to Beaufort or somewhere on the beach anyway.

If you're talking about the Sheaton jump on 'em! My guess is they are going to be a great investment.

Right now I'm booked. But I have one guy occupying a 35' slip whom I'm not sure of re long term. Slips are in Carolina Beach, N. Myrtle Beach and Charleston.

Send me a PM if you need more details.

You have lots of good choices in that general area. Goos luck!

PS: we will be cruising to New Bern this June to attend a rendezvoux of the District "Rear End" Commander. Hope to connect with all our Hateras freinds in the area.

 

[(Nobody You Know)]

I would be interested in moving my boat from Charleston Resort Marina as well. I pay $500 plus metered electric. I'm told this is a pretty average price, but a nice mom and pop place on a coastal river would appeal to me if there are any such places anymore. Thanks, Rick

You need to visit Dataw Island Marina (east of Lady's Island near Beaufort, SC.) if anybody does!

I don't own a slip there but should the new owners make an offering I promise I will be the first in line with check book.

http://www.datawmarina.com

 

[Trojan]

You can't feed your family on 2 years of no pay. That is lousy logic. The only reason the unemployment is down is because when you run out of unemployment you are taken off the list. Tell the steel workers, the auto industry, the tire industry, air lines, real-estate, the farmer, now the building industry in the northern states. In my area there was 400 building permits per month now 14. Detroit, Toledo, and surrounding towns are dying. Sure there is some business growth, but I think it will be short lived. Yeah the south is good thanks to the weather. I don't have or need 2 cars, I have a new car. My choice. I'm lucky at the moment. I live within my means. but I still worry about my children's jobs and it does not look good. The economy started changing in the 70. When 2 family incomes started to emerge. There was then to much play money. People started to buy things at any price. So escalating the economy. Now they can't live on 2 checks. I have many friends that don't have jobs and can't find one that will pay a LIVING wage. It doesnt make any difference what your earnings are your spending curve will be the same only higher or lower. On the good side the carryouts are doing fine. I hope I'm wrong. But I think the writing is on the wall.

BILL

 

[DeeRow]

You can't feed your family on 2 years of no pay. That is lousy logic.
...snip..
BILL

Bill,
I believe the point that Genesis is making is that when you have a very good year, you should save some (ALL?) of the "extra" earnings for a rainy day. The first raise that I got during my first job out of college, I was advised to put the entire raise into my 401k. The logic was that I was living on what I was making so the raise was "extra". I have been blessed in that my "rainy days" have been very short. During our "boom years", we resisted the preasure to spend more and saved aggressively. I remember a real estate agent trying to convince us to buy a larger house because we could qualify for a larger mortgage. With luck, we will survive the fluxtuations in the economy.

Mark

 

[Boss Lady]

The marketing pressures to consume more and have it all now are tremendous. Just look at the drug commercials you see now-a-days, hell even I feel like I am missing out on something because I don't need any of them. LOL Self control is commodity in short supply in America. Look at the portion sizes of food served in resturants and fast food joints. Now wonder we are overweight. They use every tool in the tool box to get your money. The play to your ego, your fears, use sex, etc and the madison avenue guys are good at it. The help you justify endangering your financial health. I have always been rather practical so things have to make sense or I won't do it. Owning a boat is the dumbest thing you can do. You cannot justify it, unless it falls into one of three categories: I needs it, I wants it, or I just gots to have it! LOL

 

[Genesis]

Detroit's problems aren't new; I grew up there. Over-concentration of single industries has led to an intractable problem. This sort of thing is tempting for cities and states to get involved in when there's a boom, but of course when there's a bust....

There are lots of towns and regions in this country that have had this problem at one time or another. Anyone remember Houston when the price of oil went down close to $10/bbl - what happened to the economy there? How many people were crying about how the economy (there) sucked? Well, during that time I lived in the Chicago area, and I can tell you this - the economy in Chicago most certainly did NOT suck.

If you live in a place like this, and times are good, then make plans to bail if/when they get bad, hopefully before the housing situation deteriorates so you don't get nailed on the value of your real estate. If you're retired and secure, then perhaps you don't care how much your house is worth - you're living in it and don't want to sell it. But for the working man and woman, remaining in a place that has incompetent government officials in charge, whom you either have made no effort to remove, didn't want to remove because they were promising (and delivering, during the good times!) "a chicken in every pot", or have tried and CAN'T get rid of, is not an intelligent thing to do.

We have a right of mobility in this nation, and the ONLY way to solve this sort of problem is for governments to be held accountable by the people. Those folks understand only one thing - loss of power. Remove a significant part of their population (tax) base, they lose power. Vote them out, they lose power. Otherwise, there is no check and balance on foolish acts.

Detroit should have been depopulated by the working man and woman 20 years ago. I left in the early 80s for this very reason - it was obvious what was going to happen.

I took a tremendous amount of grief when I decided to move to Florida from Chicago instead of "returning home." My family lives near Detroit. I refuse to go there, to spend money there, or live there. I refuse to reward foolish economic and social policy decisions when I have other choices in this great nation. They, being retired and with no children at home that are subject to the problems, like it there. Fine. They're welcome to stay. I, on the other hand, am free to make a different choice.

 

[whaler23]

The typical American Household has a net worth of $465,970, up 93% from 1965, 60% from 1985 and 35% from 1995

Very interesting thread I just have a question regarding the typical net worth, the above number seems very high for me to call it typical, wandering where this stat came from. Thanks.

 

[Genesis]

Forbes this last fall (sorry, not Newsweek - here's the link) http://www.forbes.com/economy/2006/10/16/demographics-income-population-biz_cx_tvr_1017median.html

Looked high to me too, but the explanation is that most of it is in home value. The rest is, mostly, in 401ks and IRAs.

BTW, those who claim that "real wages are down" are including unskilled illegal immigrants in the pool. Of course those nearly 30 million people (that's a VERY sizeable part of the workforce) don't make as much as people with high school or college educations! This is not a surprise - but it IS a distortion that is often used by people trying to argue that the economy is "in the ditch" - when in fact what's happened is that huge numbers of unskilled illegal workers have flooded our nation, and of course they are not doing as well as US Citizens with even modest educational resumes.

 

[Boss Lady]

Karl, you neglected to talk about the high number of unskilled citizens we are accumilating. A high school education alone no longer provides the opportunities it once did. Our vocational training programs are also under utilized, since a large number of people do not consider carpenter, brick mason, painter, mechanic, and plumber as opportunities anymore. I have a friends who spent a great deal of money to get a Bachelor's degree in things like Art, or English, and then wonder why the can't find a high paying job. If you make an educational choice to get a worthless degree, don't complain because your opportunities are minimal. Get a degree in art, big deal unless you are Picasso, or have some real talent that someone wants to pay you for doing "work" you will be pumping gas or be a door greeter at Walmart. i have a neighbor who has a Masters degree and went to work teaching school, she complained about teacher pay, I asked her did she know what the pay was before pursueing a career in teaching and she answered yes, so I then asked her what are you complaining about?. I joined the Army knowing what the pay scale looked like, so what would be the point in griping about the pay. Nobody held a gun to my head and made me join. I made a choice,, as we all do. I told her if she wanted to make a lot of money she should have picked a better field, of course she got mad because it wasn't her fault, it is the system.

 

[Walter P]

Chris, I agree with you - don't complain about the pay since you knew what it was before you got in. Regarding teachers pay, while I think that teaching is one of the most honorable professions, all the best teachers get into it because they realize that it's not really a bad paying job, especially for a "part time" job. Just as the military is not to be confused with a road to riches, neither should teaching.... but both are very rewarding professions. Depends on your priorities. If it's riches you want get into politics, preferably in the Northeast... We have the best politicians money can buy.

Years ago there was a TV series about a US Senator.. It started out with an announcer in the background saying "a democracy is a terrible form of government, but all the others are worse". Since I was a little kid, I remember the gloom and doom sayers complain about the state of the economy, so I believe we are not experiencing anything new. Regarding the loss of manufacturing jobs, I believe as technology keeps advancing, manufacturing jobs will become more and more scarce. Right now labor is still cheap in many parts of the world, but eventuallly machines will take over even the cheap labor markets.

The sky is not falling, it just seems like it sometimes. Negative thinking can be bad for anyone, even a self fulfilling proficy so be careful.

Human nature has many elements among them is ambition or sometimes called greed. It is against our nature to be satisfied with anything. One of the main reasons that pure communism can't work is that it counters human nature. I like our system even with all the warts. Let's keep using our toys and enjoying them and not lose the big picture. cheeeeze...... Walt

 

[johngalt]

In my area there was 400 building permits per month now 14.

I cannot speak to the local economics in your area but I can say something regarding the building industry as a home builder of 30 years experience. In these parts, which is a small tourist town with a yearround population in the thousands I have seen the town change from having a few dozen local builders to now trying to support hundreds of contractors. The bulk of this work has been in the spec market fueled by easy money. That was all well and good for a while but now there is a huge glut of empty houses for sale. Now that interest rates are rising and the market is overloaded these spec builders stand to loose huge sums every month that the house sits unsold. It is the typical market laws of supply and demand. Add to that the fact that every cop, school teacher, realtor, whatever,also seemed to think he could also be a developer and the unscrupulous mortgage brokers convincing people that they could afford a home way beyond their means,plus the interest only mortgages and you have a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately for the local people all of these spec houses are in the 5000 sq.ft. and up range so they are not available for local consumption. That results in a serious lack of affordable housing for the working class. My children could never afford to buy a home in this area.

 

[labrador]

Capt. Bill, Yes it is the Sheraton however as the above comments describe I don't want to buy what I can't afford. I moved from N.J. down here to N.C. for that exact reason. My entire factory and a bunch of employees are here now and the housing mkt while slowed is not bad at all. Getting out of the Northeast (yes Walter p.) is the best thing that has happened to me even if my attorneys screwed up and cost me over 7 figures on the sale of my plant in N.J. (They will pay for that eventually) I'm happier down here than I've ever been with a great bunch of people who really care about your wellbeing. My wife and I were welcomed with open arms and the cost of living is so much less than the N.E. I wonder why I didn't do it sooner. People do have a choice to move to get a better life, Karl you have it exactly right!

 

[Rickysa]

I'm happier down here than I've ever been with a great bunch of people who really care about your wellbeing. My wife and I were welcomed with open arms and the cost of living is so much less than the N.E. I wonder why I didn't do it sooner. People do have a choice to move to get a better life, Karl you have it exactly right!

Sssshhhhhhhhh!!! Don't let the cat out of the bag or everyone will want to move here

Glad all is working out so well.

Rick

 

[Freebird]

Very interesting thread I just have a question regarding the typical net worth, the above number seems very high for me to call it typical, wandering where this stat came from. Thanks.

I recently had "somebody" ask "what is your net worth"? I responded, "Well, I just bought it at Wal-Mart for $19.95 and ain't caught no fish, so I reckon it's still worth about twenty bucks considering what I paid in sales tax." Next question, "Do you have any CD's?". I said "Yep, everything Lynyrd Skynyrd ever put out and then some." See, this high finance stuff isn't that difficult. I just wish I could have figured out a way to work in the old song "Nuthin' From Nuthin' Leaves Nuthin'".

Now then, let's be serious. I too am in the dubious position of needing to sell an older Hatteras in a depressed market. My 58 falls into the same no man's land that many boats do. The average income guy who would want it would probably have a hard time securing financing short of a second mortgage on his home. The above average income guy wants something new or at least newer if he's going to drop over $100k. Hell, what can you really buy for the price I expect to pull from my 58? You can't even buy a decent 30' plus CC twin engine for under $150k. Have you priced a new 30' Sea Ray lately? Who the hell is buying these things? It is absolutely insane, but it has to have a positive effect on used boats!

As previously stated, insurance in Florida becomes an issue I haven't had to deal with yet. That will change at the end of July and may factor into my decision as to my bottom line price. There seems to be an abundance of reasonably priced marina slips available, so I don't see that as being much of an issue. I've been looking at alternative marinas for the 58 as well as the 41 which I may very well bring to Florida depending on the outcome of situations which are beyond my control.

Booming economy or not, it's almost always a buyer's market especially where used boats are concerned.

You only need one buyer though, but sometimes you have to kiss a lot of frog kissers to find one.

 

[Boss Lady]

When it comes to boats it is always a buyers market, unless you are building a custom yacht with a 2 year backlog or happen to be selling the "In" boat of the season. Marine Max has been able to sell the "image" boat to those trying to give the impression that they are players. Eventually this house of cards will crumble under its' own weight. When enough them take a bath on their Searays, things will change. But we may still be a few years away from more people seeing what we see when we look at an old Hatteras. When people ask me why don't I have a new "Stink Ray" instead of that old boat? My answer is to I ask them which would you rather own if given a choice, a pristine 1957 Chevrolet, or a 2007 Hyundai? Five years from now the 57' Chevy will still be a 57' Chevy, but the Hyundai will just be another piece of crap. I tell them it is the same for boats. Caveat Emptor applies when it comes to quality of construction and design.