bilge heaters vs. block heaters

[jim rosenthal]

You shut it off, and then you take the little winterizing plug out- 1/4 or 1/8 NPT with a square top, usually- and then put it back in with grease on the threads. That way the inside of the valve is empty.

 

[Glory]

You shut it off, and then you take the little winterizing plug out- 1/4 or 1/8 NPT with a square top, usually- and then put it back in with grease on the threads. That way the inside of the valve is empty.

And for the sea cocks with no plug, remove the hose leading to the seacock, close the seacock, fill the hose with antifreeze (non toix), open the seacock as you pour in more antifreeze then close the sea
Cock before it all drains into the sea.

JM

 

[Avenger]

Any other questions?

 

[MikeP]

Good points Jim,

I guess I've just been overwhelmed thinking about doing all this, which is a little silly given all the other work I've done on the boat over the years.

The past two years with the cold we've had I've had to repair water system leaks in the spring even with, I thought, meticulously running heat in all areas of the boat. Last year was the worst. I had forgotten the supply lines to the washer/dryer. Had to repair both of them.

Sounds like maybe I should take a deep breath and start making up a plan.

Cheryl

You've done stuff Waaaay more complicated/time consuming than winterizing. Of course, you get better at it the more times you do it - not necessarily "better" in the sense of protection but as in taking less time/materials. The first time I winterized our 53 in 2004, as I recall it t took me 2.5 days and I used about 40 gallons of pink!. I do it easily now in a day and use less than 1/2 that.

I have found it imperative for me to use a checklist that has a line for every single item that needs attention. For example, as far as the FW system, every separate faucet/water-using item is listed on its own line with a space to make a checkmark when I have OBSERVED pink coming out of that faucet/fixture/appliance (hot AND cold).

 

[rsmith]

And for the sea cocks with no plug, remove the hose leading to the seacock, close the seacock, fill the hose with antifreeze (non toix), open the seacock as you pour in more antifreeze then close the sea
Cock before it all drains into the sea.

JM

Not going to work unless you have the open end of the hose well above the waterline. I always pressurized mine with compressed air untill I saw it bubbling outside the hull then shut the seacock.

 

[q240z]

At my marina, there's reportedly been a veritable parade of people who suffered freeze damage from the nasty cold we had last winter. The leaders of the parade were the people whose water lies and toilets stopped working when it dropped below 10F overnight. Another fellow took off on vacation to a warm place during the coldest week (4*F overnight and windy), leaving his engine room protected by one radiator heater set to the lowest setting and nothing covering the ER vents. Both of his Detroits are broken, seacocks were destroyed...there's a looong punch list on that boat. He got towed south earlier this year for repairs, all of which is out of his wallet. Insurance companies apparently expect a bit of due diligence. But throughout the course of this year, as other people at the marina fire up and try to depart from their slips many are finding problems they didn't know about. The liveaboards who wait until the last month to go out on the mandatory yearly cruise could be in a real bind.

As to the OP's question about block vs space heaters, I think block heaters are the hands-down winners. Space heaters heat the air, and it takes a long time for that heat to work its way into big chunks of precious metal. Block heaters put the heat where it needs to be. I'm personally a fan of oil pan heaters, since heat rises and water molecules in oil can make some nasty compounds that attack vital engine parts. When the heat starts out at the bottom of the oil pan, you're sure the entire block gets warm and stays moisture free.

I use 250w Wolverines on the 671s in my old Connie and the 427s in my Commander 42 but went with 400w Moroso units for the Cummins in my Roamer. I also insulate all of the water lines. For the toilet supply seacocks, I tape a box together that's made of insulation board, and I put low wattage lights inside. Even a 10w CFL puts out enough heat that, when it's somewhat contained inside the insulation box, the seacock and FW line never freeze.

 

[holtcl]

Mike- to your point - I DO use a checklist (I have multiple checklists and at least as many logs) and now I've created a new one for winterization, which I expanded based on my previous "seasonal" checklist.

Last winter I wasn't detailed enough with my so-called winterizing and I ended up with a couple bursted water lines. This year, hopefully better.

To clarify though, I had not planned to use ER or block heaters as a sole source of heat; I've always run 4-5 heaters on the boat all winter. But that's living aboard. It does get to be an expensive power bill come Jan-Feb.

I guess this is all a learning curve.

Cheryl

 

[JLR]

I thought I might pipe in. First, I winterize my boat every year it is up North. Second, I have added thermostats to control my block heaters, in addition to the thermostats on the block heaters themselves. So, when the temperature in the ER drops below 40 degrees, my block heaters come on. Third, in the ER and elsewhere on the boat, I have space heaters. Each space heater is on a little cube thermostat that gets plugged into the wall. When the temps drop below 32 degrees, the space heaters go on. Lastly, I always cover my engine room vents. Hope this helps.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Given how little oil pan heaters, like the Wolverines or Morosos, cost, I would get a set of those. Winterize the rest of the boat, and then leave the oil pan heaters on. Cover up the engine room air intakes and the exhaust pipes as well, and you should be fine.

I am very keen on using compressed air to blow everything out of the fresh water system. If you can get it really dry in there, it won't freeze. That's how marinas do it, and I think they are right. The key is having a large enough compressor so that you get volume as well as pressure.

 

[holtcl]

ok now I am getting confused- on the FW system, I was thinking there were two potential approaches to "winterizing" 1. blow air through it and open up all the valves; OR put pink stuff in.

Jim, your instructions below talk about antifreeze but what's the point of blowing air into the system to get the water out of you're going to put liquid back into the system? Is it to get all the water out BEFORE putting anti-freeze in? Sorry I'm dense. I should probably stop reading these posts and just start fiddling with some of this.

--------

Freshwater: Run the tank dry. Drain the water heater and bypass it. Use an air compressor to blow all the lines out. If you have two freshwater inlets, you will need to do them both. Put pink antifreeze in the water tank and run it through to all faucets, showers, outlets etc.

---------

Another question- my Bosch compressor is 2.0 HP, 6 gal. Think that is enough to do the trick?

Cheryl

 

[jim rosenthal]

I've done both- just blow out all the water with compressed air after emptying the system out, and at least once I've put pink AF in AFTER blowing the system dry. I think last year I just blew the system out dry, and it was fine.

You should fit bypass valves to the water heater- you don't want to fill it up with pink AF. You drain it, bypass it, and then blow the system out dry.

I think your compressor would be large enough. That sounds like the larger one I have- the little one is good for tires and not much else.

 

[holtcl]

Makes sense!

Cheryl

 

[rsmith]

ok now I am getting confused- on the FW system, I was thinking there were two potential approaches to "winterizing" 1. blow air through it and open up all the valves; OR put pink stuff in.

Jim, your instructions below talk about antifreeze but what's the point of blowing air into the system to get the water out of you're going to put liquid back into the system? Is it to get all the water out BEFORE putting anti-freeze in? Sorry I'm dense. I should probably stop reading these posts and just start fiddling with some of this.

--------

Freshwater: Run the tank dry. Drain the water heater and bypass it. Use an air compressor to blow all the lines out. If you have two freshwater inlets, you will need to do them both. Put pink antifreeze in the water tank and run it through to all faucets, showers, outlets etc.

---------

Another question- my Bosch compressor is 2.0 HP, 6 gal. Think that is enough to do the trick?

Cheryl

If you just put pink stuff in the tank and pump it through the system it will not treat the inlet water from the dockside connection as it has a check valve and pressure reducing valve in the line. Be mindful of anywhere theirs a check valve in the system as water will be trapped at that point.

 

[MikeP]

ok now I am getting confused-

Cheryl

Then our work here is done!

 

[REBrueckner]

When you use heat tape to wrap objects, do not cross the tape over itself.
Wrap the tape side by side so it is either touching the object to be protected
or has air circulating.
Crossing heat tape over itself creates too much contact heat and the tape can melt,
ruining it. You can guess how I learned this.

 

[JonHupp]

As winter is approaching, it seems like revisiting the discussion about heating engine rooms (+/-) winterization is appropriate (again). I'm keeping my boat in the water this winter, I plan to winterize (especially the FW systems) but I'll use the boat some so I've reviewed the many threads on keeping the DD's warm. Options seem to be:

1) Block off everything and try to use cheap HD heaters to keep the ER above 40.

2) Use Wolverine Contact Oil Pan heater(s) (use less energy, but need to stick well to a very flat, very well prepared oil pan...)

3) Use some sort of coolant heater (HotStart). These use more energy...

One point I'd like challenge is that heating the oil pan is really any different from heating the coolant or engine block directly. All are basically heating a huge block of metal. While 'heat rises' in air, this really doesn't apply with any contact/coolant heaters. The Thermal Conductivity of Cast Iron is 58. The Thermal Conductivity of Steel is 43. Compare this with air (0.024, or lower for dry winter air) or even oil (0.15) and you see that in any sort of near 'steady state' situation, it is the metal that holds and moves the heat. The bottom line is simply the size of the heater and the set point and location of a thermostat if used.

Anybody who has worked in an engine room in the winter, even on a very warm day, knows how these massive blocks of metal can hold heat (and cold) for a long time.

Again, nothing earth-shattering here, and there are lots of ways to keep and engine and engine room warm.

Jon

 

[Boatsb]

Intakes and exhaust will still have water that can freeze if not kept warm. I used to blow out the seawater on my old pacemaker and then run a gallon of antifreeze through to to get the water in the exhaust but that's a much smaller system on the 350 chevys.

What Will you do if power is lost? How will it keep from freezing? What is your planned usage over the winter?

 

[JonHupp]

Intakes are in the engine room so should be warm. My dock is on a natural gas automatic whole house generator so I'm not too concerned about power loss. You are correct about the exhaust. Even when I winterize on the hard, I've never felt confident that I got enough water out or pink stuff in to protect the exhaust but your point is well taken.

As to my actual winter use, again you are probably correct that it doesn't warrant the trouble, but in Maryland we can have some great December and early March weekends...

 

[Boatsb]

I ran year round on long Island but there was times I had to go out and run the boat to keep it warm.

It's simple to re winterize the engines if you set up the intakes with y valves.

 

[JonHupp]

I've seen mention of 'y-valves' and winteriizing 'Ts' on this site but, given the large diameter of the raw water pipe, I must admit that I've never run across any hardware that would make thiis possible. Any leads or pictures would be appreciated