Att Airline guys and pilots

[TommyG]

I'll humbly disagree with a few of you on here.

Yes, a lot of guys say that they prefer cargo flying. "Boxes don't complain." "No people, no problems." Both are true. What I have noticed, though, is that my buddies in the brown and purple jets aren't meeting me on my long layovers in Nice, or Prague, or even Amsterdam. Their layovers seem to be shorter, and in places like Cologne or Dubai (not bad places, but not tourism Meccas, either). Do I deal with passengers issues? Sure. It's not a common occurrence, though (except maybe on Moscow flights).

Regarding the financial aspect, the dark days of the post-9/11 years are behind us. While the pay isn't up to what it was in the glory days, it's getting there. Even the pilot group that's been a perennial anchor on our wages (by agreeing to work for much less than the industry standard) has merged with a bigger airline, and is back to making a decent wage. The pressure to hire pilots will cause wages to continue their climb.

Also, the long awaited pilot shortage is here. Within the next ten years, my employer will be retiring 1000 pilots per year. The guys we hire today will be Captains on a narrow body jet in five years, and on a wide body in 10-12 years.

The airline career has been through tough times, but we're coming out of it finally.

 

[krush]

I know several AA 777 pilots that tell me they haven't been hiring since 911 and there is a huge void of experienced pilots coming up the line.

"Experience" is just the term the airlines use. Think about it this way. All ATP must meet the minimum standards to perform their job as Capt or FO. They either are acceptable or not (in the eyes of the FAA and management).

"Experience" requirements shift up or down depending on the market of available candidates. The military proves that it doesn't take somebody with 20 years and 10,000-20,000 hours to fly a heavy around. Now, I'm not saying the wisdom and seat time isn't a good thing to have (imagine if Capt Sully wasn't in the seat), but the fact and statistics speak for themselves.

When there is a huge applicant pool, the "experience" requirements increase. When the pool is smaller, they are lowered. It's totally arbitrary. Everybody in the pool meets the minimum standards required by the FAA, though.

And totally off in left field, but how many pilots are mere button pushes these days? Look at some of the recent accidents, especially the dash8 that caused this ATP right seat requirement. The true art of being an aviator just doesn't seem to be as common.

 

[luckydave215]

And totally off in left field, but how many pilots are mere button pushes these days? Look at some of the recent accidents, especially the dash8 that caused this ATP right seat requirement. The true art of being an aviator just doesn't seem to be as common

This^
I was trained to perform spins on my FIRST lesson, and every flight during my training was done in a different airplane. Not just different Cessnas, but high wing, low wing, tail draggers, high performance/complex, retractables, spam cans and tube/fabric, etc. I leaned to fly, not just how to fly a specific airframe. I landed at huge airports, little airports, dirt strips, desert dry lakes, and bumpy grass.
I was taught soaring, max effort slips, flying in deep stalls, wheel landing tail draggers at night with my eyes closed (my instructor saying from the back seat "feel the wing fly, feel the ground effect!") and positive G aerobatics. All this during my primary training. 500 hours and a bunch of ratings later I have to say that my first instructor was wonderful!
As a result I have the confidence to jump in any airplane, read the POH and fly it (as long as it's a recip, I have zero turbine time)
Serious stick and rudder skills are no longer taught even to get a private ticket, instructors and schools are afraid of liability.

 

[smoothmove]

I've been waiting for someone to bring it up, but haven't seen it so here goes... it'll be contentious.

Aren't we just a very few years away from pilotless cargo flights? A friend with Boeing was telling me that they are already making a nightly flight from Memphis to an airfield outside London daily and have been doing it for more than a year. They don't make a big public deal out of it, but it has been a test bed operation and apparently a successful program. Frankly, it's probably a good thing in terms saving pilot lives, but there's no doubt that it is driven by a desire to cut costs. It's not going to happen overnight, but it's going to happen. This same guy was saying that they felt there was NO WAY that it would replace airline pilots (for now) because of passenger anxieties, but that it was looking very strong for cargo shipments.

So maybe, long term, the best place for a pilot would be in the airline business. Just sayin'.

Eric

 

[Boatsb]

Remember the package delivery drones.

We won't even need truck drivers soon.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Yes, we'll all just sit at home and live our lives through the Internet..

Hang on a moment, we're already doing a lot of that...

 

[Mike36c]

I've been waiting for someone to bring it up, but haven't seen it so here goes... it'll be contentious.

Aren't we just a very few years away from pilotless cargo flights? A friend with Boeing was telling me that they are already making a nightly flight from Memphis to an airfield outside London daily and have been doing it for more than a year. They don't make a big public deal out of it, but it has been a test bed operation and apparently a successful program. Frankly, it's probably a good thing in terms saving pilot lives, but there's no doubt that it is driven by a desire to cut costs. It's not going to happen overnight, but it's going to happen. This same guy was saying that they felt there was NO WAY that it would replace airline pilots (for now) because of passenger anxieties, but that it was looking very strong for cargo shipments.

So maybe, long term, the best place for a pilot would be in the airline business. Just sayin'.

Eric

I'll bite, while I'm pretty sure boxes don't hire lawyers after a crash folks on the ground might not be so giddy about several hundred thousand pound pilotless aircraft flying overhead. Automation has come a long way but it can't replace a human. I could see single pilot transport category aircraft but pilotless aircraft should remain drones, etc. I've seen buss faults that take out an entire avionics rack, software glitches that permanately (till shutdown) corrupt both flight time and fuel computations, CPDLC CMU's that lock up halfway across the Pacific, engine FADEC's that revert to alt mode for no appearent reason, dual HF failures, etc. and don't get me going on air data miscompares. But back on subject there are good and bad gigs in every line of work including aviation. The sad thing is pilots LOVE to complain hence the old joke: what's the difference between a pilot and a jet engine? The engine stops whining after shutdown. There are some great aviation jobs out there.

 

[beebopbogo]

Any bites yet, rsmith?

I flew the commuters for 5 years. (Never ever go there. Ever. Unless you're 20 and can take the punishm...wait, no. Never!)

Now I'm flying contract in Afghanistan. A great option, but you said he doesn't want to come back. But think about this: $150k per year, only working half the time (home based 2 months on, 2 months off) and you can quit at any time, company-paid ticket home.

And finally: Doesn't the Air Force and Delta have a flow through system? Haha. No, but seriously. One guy I met at the interview said the Air Force helped him with his interview prep, gouges, and contacts, all specific to Delta. He got the job, too.

Good luck!

 

[beebopbogo]

Oh, I forgot another option: Foreign! There are some amazing contracts out there right now! These opportunities seem to come in waves, and we're riding a big one now. A lot of them are in Asia, but you can get some good commuting schedules with huge paychecks and all the respect in the world.

I.e. Start with Hong Kong Airlines to get the Airbus type rating (they actually hire non-typed guys). Stick it out a few years to complete the contract and then the world is your oyster. Make $150k net at ANA in Japan, or try out Emirates in Dubai or Cathay Pacific or India or even come back to the US now that you have airline experience and the Airbus rating.

Anyway, just another option to research further on your own.