At the Helm, what engine stats do you want to see?

[rustybucket]

I've been working/playing/developing this digital sensor system off/on (mostly off lol) for about 6 years now. This is on our 52c with 8v92TI's. I've got all digital temp sensors installed, egt, coolant temp, oil temp, trans temp...etc. I'm now to pressure sensors. I'm adding oil pressure, trans pressure, fuel pressure, coolant tank pressure.

My issue is, if I put everything i'm measuring into one helm display (currently using an ipad4 with 10" screen) it's going to get busy very quickly.

So, we have a couple of options... add another ipad so we have two displays for engine/stats at the helm. Or I can keep what is shown to a minimum, only the absolute necessities visible with the ability to page to a separate page to view the other stuff.

On a side note, I'm also adding tank level sensors on both fuel tanks and the water/waste tanks, those will be visible on a different page as well.

Here are some screenshots for visual reference on what I'm talking about.

Here is what the helm display looks like on the ipad

Here is the same display on the salon tv

Here is the tankage display. The size of the 'tank' visually displayed is directly proportional to the size of the tank. So the Aft fuel tank holds 735gal and shows as larger than the port water tank which holds far less.

So, back to the main question for the Hatteras Brain Trust. At the Helm, if you could see anything/everything, what would you want to see?

 

[motoryacht lover]

Boost, racor vaccuum and gear temp. If you could add those. The gauge I monitor the most is the coolant temp gauge. Oil pressure (knock on wood) never seems to be an issue. Gear Pressure never seems to be an issue but I watch gear temp as well. But Viking didn’t give me a gear temp at the helm so I have to check that one when I do engine room checks, same as with fuel vacuum. Can you get your system to mark the normal readings when under cruise? I have pieces of tape to tell me where normal is as I can’t remember it all and keeps me from thinking it is a little up or down. I hope the picture shows my tape marks. BTW I like your set up and wish I had something similiar.

 

[rustybucket]

Boost, racor vaccuum and gear temp. If you could add those. The gauge I monitor the most is the coolant temp gauge. Oil pressure (knock on wood) never seems to be an issue. Gear Pressure never seems to be an issue but I watch gear temp as well. But Viking didn’t give me a gear temp at the helm so I have to check that one when I do engine room checks, same as with fuel vacuum. Can you get your system to mark the normal readings when under cruise? I have pieces of tape to tell me where normal is as I can’t remember it all and keeps me from thinking it is a little up or down. I hope the picture shows my tape marks. BTW I like your set up and wish I had something similiar. View attachment 37668

Good feedback! So on my system, when you are setting up the sensor you can set warning low, warning hi, and alarm low and alarm hi. You also set other parameters like where is this sensor, what is it monitoring and what units it is sending.

So for instance on coolant temp, I set warning hi at 190 and alarm hi at 195.

When a spec meets a warning level the spec itself starts flashing and turns yellow. There is also an audible sound played (on whatever device you are looking at).

Likewise when a spec meets an alarm level, the spec itself starts flashing red and a more urgent, louder alarm starts sounding. Again, on whatever device you are looking at.

So the premise of this whole project came b/c we do many multi-day trips, I have to sleep. Laying in my bed I was constantly 'hearing' things or 'thinking' things, I'd run up to the bridge, look at the gauges, inevitably they were always good, then I'd go back down to my berth and try to catch some z's. I thought man, wouldn't it me nice if I could roll over, open my ipad and see all those numbers I want to see? And man, wouldn't it REALLY be nice if something started alarming sound that it would make a sound and wake me up.

So that's kinda how this all got started. There is one CPU 'brain' (A RPI) behind everything, it is basically a web server that polls all the sensors connected to it and broadcasts them via web sockets to any device on the boat connected to wifi. So you could come on my boat, join the boat's wifi network with your phone/tablet...etc, pull up an ip address in your web browser and be able to see everything.

Literally an almost unlimited number of devices can be connected to it. And the manufacturer of that device is of no consequence, so it works on ipad, android, laptop, desktop, basically any device with wifi connectivity and a web browser.

Since it is LAN based the boat does not have to have internet connection for it to work, so yes, it will work 200 miles offshore or in another country no problem.

The project is open source (so anybody can use it) but is still a little green for an average joe to try and implement. Once I get all the analog pressure sensors working properly I'll clean up a few things and it will be more ready for a normal person to implement.

 

[rustybucket]

On the fuel vacuum, could that sensor be on the on-engine filter housing? Would you want it before the on-engine filter, or after it?

 

[rustybucket]

And before anybody goes there.... this system is not meant to replace the analog gauges on the dash. It's purpose is to do all the things those analog gauges cannot. I would NEVER suggest anyone replace your analog dash gauges with this electronic system. It is to supplement and modernize, not replace.

 

[krush]

What are you using for the I/O? PLC, arduino, etc?

 

[rustybucket]

What are you using for the I/O? PLC, arduino, etc?

All ER digital sensors are ran straight to terminals in the engine room. There we gather all the signals and send to the area behind the salon tv via a single cat6 cable. So all wires on the engines run the forward engine room bulkhead, then a cat6 takes it from there straight up to the tv area.

Thanks to 1986 tv size/shape I have a giant void behind our flat panel tv to keep the RPI and other yacht brain realated items (eventually going to run video feeds to there as well so you can view engine room and deck cameras from there)

All the analog sensors are ran to Arduino Megas with screw terminals and bus bars. The arduino megas are connected to the rpi via usb. The arduino reads the analog signal and the rpi can ask for it in digital format whenever it needs/wants it.


So basically you have small 'hubs' in different places around the boat depending on where your sensors are. Currently for me it's all in front of the engines, that may change as I add more sensors in different places.

 

[Pascal]

I find gear temp to be a critical cooling red flag, at least with some engines like Cats 3412Es and C32s. Creeping gear temps have always been an early warning of cooling issues, rising before coolant temps.

I also like to monitor amps used on the AC side. Nowadays we use so much power that sometimes I need to monitor amps to prevent tripping breakers. I solved this on my 53 by using easy to read digital meters on the new panel close to the helm and visible from the saloon sofa. On the Lazzara 84 I run, we have a full size monitor at the helm with a monitoring system. Early on i reconfigured the main screen to show amps used. This has saved me many trips to the ER to reset main breakers

 

[rustybucket]

I find gear temp to be a critical cooling red flag, at least with some engines like Cats 3412Es and C32s. Creeping gear temps have always been an early warning of cooling issues, rising before coolant temps.

I also like to monitor amps used on the AC side. Nowadays we use so much power that sometimes I need to monitor amps to prevent tripping breakers. I solved this on my 53 by using easy to read digital meters on the new panel close to the helm and visible from the saloon sofa. On the Lazzara 84 I run, we have a full size monitor at the helm with a monitoring system. Early on i reconfigured the main screen to show amps used. This has saved me many trips to the ER to reset main breakers

That is a REALLY good idea about measuring ac amps, I like that A LOT!! Def adding that to my list of sensors. If the amp sensors are reasonably priced and low load I could put one on each ac unit, catching a high load situation there before it presents a symptom would be key in saving a compressor.....

On the trans temps, what do you feel is a good warning or alarm temp level? I've already got the trans temp sensors in but wasn't really sure what to set the warnings/alarms to.

 

[Pascal]

I guess it depends on the gears. With the ZFs on the 1650hp C32s the alarm is set at 180 or 185 but if they creep over 160 after an hour it s a sign that the cooling system needs attention

I also wish all these systems had two alarm levels... a hard alarm when whatever parameter reaches the oh-crap level and a softer alarm just to say... hey that gear or coolant temp is a little above normal... keep an eye on it or throttle back. Nowadays with the capabilities of most electronic systems it s not too much to ask.

 

[oscarvan]

If the amp sensors are reasonably priced and low load I could put one on each ac unit

They should be. AC amps are measured by one of those loopy induction thingies (excuse the lack of technical correct vocabulary) and are I believe self generating....

I have AC current meters that are under $20 including the display. Not exactly what you want, but they should be in line.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I like as much info as I can get. Just size them so you see the important stuff by making it bigger and putting it in the center. Also set up alarms for each one and have them change colors as they approach the high settings to grab your attention. This is what I use on my motorhome.

 

[rustybucket]

I guess it depends on the gears. With the ZFs on the 1650hp C32s the alarm is set at 180 or 185 but if they creep over 160 after an hour it s a sign that the cooling system needs attention

I also wish all these systems had two alarm levels... a hard alarm when whatever parameter reaches the oh-crap level and a softer alarm just to say... hey that gear or coolant temp is a little above normal... keep an eye on it or throttle back. Nowadays with the capabilities of most electronic systems it s not too much to ask.

If you had to assign a color to this 'softer' alarm what would it be?

I completely get what you are saying, maybe when fuel vacuum reaches 2 bars (or whatever) it's probably a good idea to change the filter before the next trip, rather than waiting for it to spike and require changing. Seems like there would be lots of things like that... I don't need an audible sound, I need a 'maintenance reminder' or a 'may want to check on this' type alert.... hmm....

 

[rustybucket]

They should be. AC amps are measured by one of those loopy induction thingies (excuse the lack of technical correct vocabulary) and are I believe self generating....

I have AC current meters that are under $20 including the display. Not exactly what you want, but they should be in line.

Located a potential amp sensor on amazon last night for $10. I'm going to order one of them to test out.

If it only costs $10 for each device you want to measure amps on, what all would you want to measure? I think obviously the main feeds coming into each panel. Should I try to measure any individual devices?

 

[Pascal]

I guess yellow for a “hey look at me” alarm would be good then red for “do something now” .

I mentioned gear temp but the same goes for coolant. Let say the limit is 196 degrees, you may want to get a first warning at 189... yes I know you really supposed to scan gauges and detect changes but any help is welcome...

As to amps I like swing the total used. On my 53 I have three sub panels off the 120/250-50 feed. One 120v that’s mostly ship service, another 120v for the air handler and one of the batt chargers and then a 240v for the chillers, air con pumps and stove. I can see at a glance the amps on each of three Blue Seas digital meters. If I see we re close to 50amps total, I can turn off a chiller or the water heater...

On the 84 footer i run, with a single 100amp service we often get close to the limit especially in summer or with a full house. Again monitoring the usage let’s me address the issue before we trip a breaker. I can tell the crew to just only one dryer or one at all while cooking, turn off the Watermaker for a while etc... it s a great tool.

As to vacuum on the racor I have to say I’ve never had the need to to worry about it. Racors and secondaries get replaced at each oil change and that is enough to avoid problems

 

[rustybucket]

I guess yellow for a “hey look at me” alarm would be good then red for “do something now” .

Would a sound play on the yellow level?

I guess in a perfect world, when setting up the sensors you could select if you want a sound to play on warning and alarm.... So for some things i might want an audible alarm for a 'yellow' state. On others i might just want to visually see the yellow and not get an audible alarm

 

[oscarvan]

For comparison and inspiration and to tie in to what Pascal is saying.....

The Boeing 757/767 I fly has an EICAS (Engine Indication and Crew Alerting System)

If a message shows up in WHITE there is no sound. A you go "hmmmmm". You may do some light reading for informational purposes. Maintenance gets an email and may start looking up stuff.

If a message and any corresponding system lights shows up in YELLOW there is a polite chime and you go "hmmmm", put your fork down, get the book out (or go to the appropriate chapter on the iPad) and read what it wants you to DO.

If a message and any corresponding system lights show up in RED there are VERY persistent loud noises which you actively have to silence and you immediately bring your seat back up, throw your lunch tray on the floor and take immediate pre-determined action, if any, and immediately go to the book.

I'm sure it would be a lot of tinkering to program/wire all that but yes, a chime at yellow versus a continuous signal at red would be cool.

 

[Pascal]

If was setting up a system I d like a 5 seconds buzzer on the “yellow” warning and a louder manually silenced alarm on a red alarm

 

[rustybucket]

For comparison and inspiration and to tie in to what Pascal is saying.....

The Boeing 757/767 I fly has an EICAS (Engine Indication and Crew Alerting System)

If a message shows up in WHITE there is no sound. A you go "hmmmmm". You may do some light reading for informational purposes. Maintenance gets an email and may start looking up stuff.

If a message and any corresponding system lights shows up in YELLOW there is a polite chime and you go "hmmmm", put your fork down, get the book out (or go to the appropriate chapter on the iPad) and read what it wants you to DO.

If a message and any corresponding system lights show up in RED there are VERY persistent loud noises which you actively have to silence and you immediately bring your seat back up, throw your lunch tray on the floor and take immediate pre-determined action, if any, and immediately go to the book.

I'm sure it would be a lot of tinkering to program/wire all that but yes, a chime at yellow versus a continuous signal at red would be cool.

Actually it wouldn't be bad at all, I've got all the framework in place, no wiring necessary, it's all in python and javascript code. I can make it do pretty much whatever I want it to do. I could actually have a voice come on and say 'starboard engine coolant temperature alarm hi' or whatever the condition met.

I appreciate where you're coming from as a pilot. But pilots (and ships captains) are trained and know which actions to take in a given situation (even if that action is go to the book). The 'not-so-captains' I have to program this for are slightly above novice. I've even contemplated putting in relays to auto-shut down the engines on overheat, but I'm terrified of the system shutting down the mains due to a faulty sensor (or bad programming lol).

So basically this has to be friendly to both the experienced captain and also the wife of the owner! lol.

I'll try to post a video up of a spec going from normal to warning to alarm and back down how I have it now and see what you guys think.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

A flashing value may be as good or better than a change in color. It would definitely attract your attention.