Anchor Pulpit rebuilds/core trouble foreward (and fixes)

[BEC53]

windlass brand

Genesis,

I'm looking at my GalleyMaid manual right now and it shows AACW as one of their model #'s. It shows it as a 600lb pull unit configured for line and chain. Maybe someone replaced the an Ideal and just left the old deck plate there. Is there a sticker on your electrical control box? Well....I guess they could have even used the Ideal controls with the new GM gearbox. Who knows???

 

[BEC53]

Oh, don't forget....

.... to leave a nut on the end of one bolt when you whack it. You don't want that monster breaking free and crashing down in the locker .

 

[Genesis]

Two things.....

... first, the PLATE on the MOTOR says "IDEAL". Its the one where the part number is! And it shows "CAP 600", which would be 600lbs, I presume.

The Ideal folks confirmed that the configuration of parts above the deck makes it a Galley Maid.

BIZARRE. Only thing I can come up with is that its a bastard child of TWO windlesses - someone took a GM gearbox and married an Ideal motor to it, although that doesn't explain the data plate on the motor.

I'm not taking any of the nuts fully off. I'm going to back 'em off but leave them all on the carriage bolts, whack the thing, then go down in the chain locker, remove the motor (to make the gearcase lighter) and extract the rest. That assumes there isn't some really good reason (like its going to leak oil all over me) not to remove the motor first.

 

[Genesis]

Request....

Becs, if you can, do you have a fax? If so I'd love a copy of that manual at 850-897-9364.

Thanks in advance if you've got the ability.....

 

[BEC53]

Manual

Sure, I'll fax it in the morning from my office. And...the GM windlass uses a stub shaft which the motor mates up to. So, you don't have to worry about oil when you remove it. The gearbox is separate and sealed from the motor.

Good luck

 

[Genesis]

Thanks....

... that'll be a help.

I didn't see a gasket, so I assumed the motor could be pulled without incident. Already loosened the nuts a bit and it didn't drip - glad to hear that there's not an O-ring on the collar or something that was waiting to give me a "surprise"! :rollin

 

[doc g]

windlass ID

The windlass on my 61 is apparently some sort of a "bastard child" also. The deck plate and related deck hardware clearly say IDEAL ,but the gearbox ,motor,controller are GM.When I rebuilt mine (BBHW) there were a bunch of custom (?)shims,bushings,above deck which neither company would claim as there own. Be careful when you take it apart because mine did not match either Ideal or GM for the above deck hardware. I had luckily made a diagram so when I put it back together,3 weeks later, I knew how it had to go. I would also replace the clutch plates on the chain gypsy while you are at it otherwise you may not be able to tighten the ass'y enough so the chain gypsy does'nt slip. According to both manufacturers you are supposed to back that big capstan nut off to free- spool the anchor chain out or the gearbox gets messed up as mine did. Good luck!

 

[Genesis]

Yep

I use a combination chain/line rode, and most of it is line, so I just do a "drop it" deal for sets.

The funny thing is that the windless has both 'up' and 'down' deck switches though, and the motor is designed for both directions. Kinda odd for a 'single acting' (no power down) model.

Oh well, I'm headed over to do the deed of whacking it now; will get a good look at what I've got once its out. I intend to pull the gearbox covers and go through it all, change the shaft seal, and clean it up while she's apart.

 

[Bob Bradley]

Re: Yep

Interesting. Mine is pinned, not keyed, so I guess I have the real "Ideal" windlass. I wish I had the stubbed link between the motor and the gearbox. I received a lovely Christening of mucky, rusty gear oil. What an ungodly mess! Fortunately I managed to confine it to the chain locker, and the chain had already been removed. If it ever had drooled into 300' of chain, I don't know what I would have done. As it was, it took a half dozen oil absorb pads and a can of Brake Kleen to clean up the mess.

Let me know what you find inside the pulpit, as I believe I will need to replace the core in mine.
Bob

 

[ronbecky]

GM windlass

When I bought my hatt last year the windlass didn't work and would trip the breaker when I turned it on. After banging it out as directed by a Galley Maid tech I discovered a large crack in the housing and all the oil was gone. Inside was a mass of rust. I cleaned it all out and replaced the housing and all the bearings etc. Total cost of parts was around $1000. The housing being most of it $850 or so. It works great now. The manual does say to loosen the large nut on top to drop anchor. I tried this a few times but it is a pain to have to carry this big wrench out to loosen then again to tighten to raise anchor. I even have a remote switch at the helm for operating from there. If you have to go out on deck anyway whats the purpose of having it. I just tightened the nut and use the foot switches lo lower and raise now. It doesn't seem to be a problem. The manual says the windlass is not designed to have a load on in the down direction. I don't consider dropping the chain a load.
I used my scissors jack from my car to lower and raise the windlass. It made the job a lot easier. I removed the DC motor first for testing before I realized what was wrong with it. There is an interesting connection between the motor and gear box.It is a disc made up of layers of rubber and fabric just like the sidewall of a tire. There are 2 holes on each side for matching pins on the drive motor and gear. I have model AACW along with the manual and prints if anyone needs them.

 

[Bob Bradley]

Free fall anchoring

I fish wrecks a lot, so getting the anchor to the bottom quickly is necessary in order to anchor accurately.

Since I have to go up to the bow to anchor anyway, I usually wrap the chain once around the capstan, and use my foot against the chain to control the drop speed. Once I've paid out the length I want (I've marked it every 50'), I slip the chain into the wildcat.

 

[doc g]

anchor free fall

Apparently the windlass was designed with the thrust washers and bearings only on the "load" side of everything in the gearbox. That would be the side of the drive shaft which drives the worm gear. If you drop the anchor using the motor it loads the shaft the opposite way and directly stresses the driven gear (bronze) on the main shaft (the capstan shaft). I was told by the GM people it is OK to "let some line / chain out " with the motor but to use the clutch and drop with the gypsy free- wheeling or expect to rebuild it again. I know it is crazy . It is also a PIA to readjust that damn capstan nut every time also, especially when manuvering the boat and trying to pull the anchor and then you realize the chain gypsy is slipping . Not a great design IMHO.
I've come to the point that if I anchor in 20' or less I motor it out ,if in deeper water free drop it. The gearbox is not that difficult to rebuild . But of course you know when it will mess up .......on vacation when you had planned to gunkhole for 2 weeks!!!! I actually bought the extra gears to have on board.

 

[BEC53]

reverse

I just had my GM upgraded to chain. Why do they send me all of the stuff to make it reverse if they don't want me to use it that way? That makes alot of sense to send another foot switch and a new control box and then I find out that I shouldn't even run it in reverse. Why did I spend the money on all this stuff? My Ideal on my old boat worked great for years and I didn't have to do that.

 

[Genesis]

!#$)@#)!@#(%(@#(!@ More stupidity

Ok, so I got the Windless off. A piece of pipe, some PB Blaster, and a BFH did that. The amount of crud was exteme and the backing piece of plywood was wasted up underneath where you couldn't see it. Looked perfectly fine from the edges - trashed internally.

Definitely the right move to take this all apart...

So then I pull the piece of bowrail around the pulpit, the back two bolts, and figure its just sealant now, and a few screwdrivers and putty knives will get it off.

Nope.

Some numb-nuts (one of the previous owners?) apparently saw goop oozing out from under the platform. So what did they do? Wick in some EPOXY.

The pulpit coming off (slowly), but its ripping the gelcoat off the deck under the pulpit in the process. The only way I can come up with is to drive screwdrivers under the edge, working my way around, and literally tearing the joint apart. Fortunately it appears that whoever did this didn't use MUCH epoxy, and it didn't wick in very far (probably because the wood under there was sopping wet)

There's going to be significant cosmetic deck damage as a consequence, but that's not a huge deal, since it will be covered by the pulpit when I'm done. Its also nearly certain that some former owner did this, because there's no evidence that the epoxy got into the cloth - only the gelcoat and thus the skin-out (chopped strand) is coming up. I have to assume that if Hatt did this on original install they would have sanded off the gelcoat first, and there'd be no way I could get it apart at all.

THANK GOD it wasn't "done right". I'll sand it down, may lay another layer of glass cloth over it, epoxy that all in, fair it, and be done with that - but getting this thing apart is turning into a REAL pain in the ass.

Thank God all this will be hidden when the pulpit goes back on, or it would be MUCH worse and probably involve repainting the entire deck!

BTW, there was no indication that it was epoxied until I started running a screwdriver around to break the seal on the 5200 - and started seeing CSM and gelcoat in the crack behind the old 5200!

No turning back now - its gotta come apart.

 

[doc g]

windlass

I suppose that it also has to with the size of the anchor , whether or not it is all chain rode or chain and line rode etc. I think most people use the reverse to let out chain all the time . It will be interesting to see how long mine will last. If the worm gear did not fall off the shaft in mine I would have never known. Personally I think it is dangerous to free fall drop it anyway,the chain can ball up and get stuck in the hawse pipe or a link may not seat properly in the chain gypsy and it kind of de-rails the chain and can get stuck under the gypsy. I have a 76 # cqr and 400' of chain so it is pretty heavy . Also the clutch does not seem to have much lattitude for being loose enough to let it out at a leisurely pace,it is either barreling out or not letting any (chain) out. Maybe because my clutch plates are new, I don't know. Anyway most folks I've seen drop with the motor.

 

[BEC53]

Re-install

I'm getting ready to put the windlass back in and I realized that I will also be putting in a hawse pipe for the chain and a gate stopper. Where do I mount these? I see that I should have at least 150 degrees of chain on the gypsy, but is there an optimal spot for the pipe? Also, how far out do I mount the stopper? And what should I do about backing it, as it will be supporting quite a load? Any measurements from another 53 pulpit or pictures showing the locations would be a great help. Thanks

 

[Genesis]

Stoppers...

Much depends on the design of the stopper you use.

If its a "through" style (the chain must run through it all the time) then you mount it forward of the windless in the path where the chain runs. Make sure there's a clear "free" setting for it. If its a "drop in" style (you can drop the chain in without threading it through when you want to use it) then mount it just to the side of that path, but close enough to the normal running line that the load is not significantly off-center.

Make damn sure its WELL backed. I personally would stick a big fat aluminum plate under the deck as a backing plate for it. Realize that the entire load of the anchor will be taken by this thing, and if it fails, it is likely to rip off parts of your deck! Of course this will become apparent in heavy weather when doing something about it will be very dangerous.

What I do with my combination rode is warp the line around the windless capstan but cleat it off on a bow cleat, which is well-backed. If I had a cleat on the roller mount I might use that - but I don't. I may add one while I have this all apart.....

 

[Trojan]

stopper

I waited until I could hang the anchor and drawn it up tight.Then I mounted it where the anchor would stay tight and I still could get the stopper free.I don't like my anchor dancing in the pulpit.Bill

 

[BEC53]

Stopper

It is the drop in type and it is really heavy-duty. It has six bolt holes in it. I do plan to see how the chain runs before I mount it, but I wondered if it should be close to the windlass or closer to the area where the chain goes through the pulpit. Maybe it will depend on where I best have access to secure it properly.

 

[Trojan]

Stopper

I would think you would want it closer to the windlass.If you were to get the chain to tight and engage the stopper it would be easier to find some slack if the chain was longer between the anchor and stopper.Plus your farther from the edge in bad weather.Mine is back on the deck.I don't know.Just food for thought.Bill