Air Conditioner Sizes on 48 YF?

[silverpaul]

Can anyone tell me the sizes of the original two A/C units on a 1974 48 YF?
Trying to decide if I want to service/repair or replace with modern, hopefully quieter, units,

Thanks,

Paul
'Freeway' 48 YF
Oxnard CA

 

[lumina]

Hi All,

Paul,

Take a look at my profile and click on the album "Hatteras Model Year 1974 Spec/Price Lists".

You will find the original specs for your 48YF in there.

As an FYI on my 48YF we have 2 cruiseair compressors and 3 chillers. A 16k btu in the salon,
a 12k btu in the aft master servicing the master and the guest stateroom and a 7k btu in the forward stateroom servicing the galley as well.

 

[spcoolin]

Hi Paul~

Is there something I can help you reason with ?

Steve~

 

[silverpaul]

Hi Steve,
This is my first boat with A/C (not so hot here in California). There appear to be two compressors in the engine room (difficult access for my overweight frame) and 2 (?) evaporators/chillers/airhandlers or whatever the correct term is. One is in a cabinet in the salon and one in the wall of the master S/R. There may be a third in the wall between the galley and V-berth but I am not sure.

They are very loud! My wife has a hearing problem and the noise of just the fan is overpowering for her. The fan slows down a tiny amount when I adjust the speed. The compressors are loud also but no worse than a window A/C so my problem is the airflow.

I was thinking of replacing the two part systems with self contained (Mermaid or Webasto) units and keep everything in the E/R. That way I also gain a cabinet in the salon and master S/R.

Alternatively, since the systems seem to work on cool and heat, are they ways to quieten the fans?

Thanks,

Paul
'Freeway' 48YF
Oxnard CA

 

[lumina]

Hi All,

Paul,

Steve is absolutely the right person to speak to about this. He's a great guy, and is a guru when it comes to A/C.

I will tell you that on my 48YF there is a chiller with only a fan speed adjustment in the fwd stateroom. It does have a duct to the galley.

Also note that for that fwd chiller to work the chiller in the master stateroom must be on because it controls the the fwd stateroom chiller.

 

[spcoolin]

I will get back to you guys when I'm not on my phone

Don't really know the 48YF but do have a realistic knowledge of Cruisar from that period.

Steve~

 

[silverpaul]

Hi Gene,

Yes that is what I must have - fwd stateroom has only fan speed and on/off (I think) and there is an outlet in the galley but no controls. So two compressors, two chillers.

Thanks,
Paul

 

[spcoolin]

Ok...Sorry for the late reply...Been busy...Not making any money, but busy...

First..."Chiller" is a term that is generally used to describe a Chilled Water condensing unit...It's the part of a Chilled Water system that chills the water that is pumped out to the "Air Handlers" instead of freon....You do not have a Chilled Water system...You do have what is called a "Direct Expansion Split (or Remote) System"

In your case (as with most all older Hatteras's below about 77') the "Condensing Unit/s" are Remote (eng rm etc) and the "Air Handlers" are in the space to be cooled/heated...

"Self Contained" direct expansion units combine both the Condensing unit & the Air Handler on one base & it is installed in the space to be cooled/heated.

Now that we got that over with...

Yes your older style Air Handlers were "Blow Thru" type (as opposed to newer "Draw Thru) They were noisy & didn't move much air (1960's design)

I'm guessing, but it was very common for Hatteras to install a EFL-16 (twin blower) unit in the salon that is connected to a WFAH-16 Condensing unit remotely located.

The staterooms were likely EFB-X (X being the BTU size) So maybe two EFB-6's controlled by a three knob control in the master...The fwd EFB only had fan speed control, was not meant to shut off, it ran with the master unit....Both of these Air Handlers would have been connected to a Remote WFAH-12....Total air handler BTU must match the compressor/condensing unit BTU...The 3 knob control in the Master, controlled Master AH fan speed, sensed temp in the master, and cycled the compressor on Master stateroom temp.

There is not much you can do with those EFB/EFL air handlers to quiet them down except adjust the fan speed control (little screw inside thru a hole in the side under a sticker) to a lower setting when the knob is fully CCW....Thing is...The EFB/EFL's didn't really move enough air in the first place, and slowing them down only causes the air coil to ice in cooling, or the unit to cycle on high head pressure in heat....Either being really hard on the compressor...Add to this 30 or so years of dust further restricting the air coil, and the problem compounds itself...

You can retrofit to newer style air handlers that have squirrel cages that move more air, and are quieter, but you are still dealing with 30 year old condensing units that are R-22 refrigerant that is getting more & more expensive, and those old units are less efficient (like 27%)

This post in my forum might explain more about refrigerants:http://marine-ac.com/2010/01/27/marine-ac-new-refrigerant-regulations/

You can also go the Self Contained unit route as you mentioned however I have not heard good things about the Webasto units (from the other service guys I meet in schools)....Mermaid is Ok for a bargain unit....

I sell Dometic (new owner of Cruisair & Marine Airrr) and just picked up MarinAire as a lower cost alternative, but the Dometic "Turbo" units are hard to beat in all ways except price...http://www.dometic.com/enus/Americas/USA/Marine/Marine-Air/DX-Self-Contained/
Retail Pricing for Cruisair & Marine Airrr is on my site (price increase due the first of the year) but they won't let me quote discounts publicly.

I don't yet have MarinAire pricing listed on site...Just got the dealership yesterday but I can sell for the same pricing listed on their site: http://www.marinaire.com/Products_s/12.htm

If you want to talk about just the air handler upgrade/s we can do that too...

Steve~

 

[lumina]

Hi All,

Paul and Steve,

Sorry guys, "chiller" is the only name I knew them by.

Paul,

There are 2 Condensing Units in the engine room and three air handlers, A 16k btu in the salon,
a 12k btu in the aft master servicing the master and the guest stateroom and a 7k btu in the forward stateroom servicing the galley as well.

FYI I had 2 of the air handlers replaced (fwd and aft master) with the new units steve mentioned. Tremendous quiet airflow....Well worth it.

 

[spcoolin]

Hi All,

Paul and Steve,

Sorry guys, "chiller" is the only name I knew them by.

Paul,

There are 2 Condensing Units in the engine room and three air handlers, A 16k btu in the salon,
a 12k btu in the aft master servicing the master and the guest stateroom and a 7k btu in the forward stateroom servicing the galley as well.

FYI I had 2 of the air handlers replaced (fwd and aft master) with the new units steve mentioned. Tremendous quiet airflow....Well worth it.

Now I'm confused Gene...

12K & a 7K air handlers total 19K...Which would not work with a 12K condensing unit...

Then again, If the Condensing unit in the engine room is 16K (largest 115 volt size back then) then it could have a 12K in the Master & 4 or 5K fwd, or 10K Master & maybe a 7K Fwd...

You could oversize the air handlers on that that 16K condensing unit by 1K, but no more than that.

Steve~

 

[silverpaul]

Thanks for the information, Steve. So I can do a trade-off, self contained vs. air handler upgrade, can you tell me what information I need to provide you (and where on the parts to look) so you can quote me for the air handler upgrade. If I go that route, I assume the installation has to made by a licensed R-22 handler? I like the look of the Marine Air units and the price.

Paul

 

[silverpaul]

Sorry, editing error: I meant the MarineAire units as the self contained option - I realize the air handlers have to be Dometic/Cruiseair.

 

[spcoolin]

Sure...I will need model numbers off the condensing units in the engine room for actual system sizes.

They should be located on the top of the electrical box covers in-between the service valves of the unit...The cover is removable with one 1/4" head screw (if you can't read it) It slides upwards to remove.

If that label is not readable then look inside the box at the strap that holds the capacitors in place....Most units had the model # written on that strap with a Sharpie...

As far as pricing...This is where we need to go to e-mail, and you can e-mail me thru the Contact Steve link on the top of the home page of my site...

Steve~

 

[lumina]

Hi All,

Steve and Paul,

I went down to the boat to check and review the documentation for the installation of the two new air handlers and you're correct Steve, 2 condensers in the engine room both 16K, 3 air handlers (original 16K single blower in the salon, a new 10K in the aft master and a new 7k in the forward stateroom). Also both 3 knob controls and the fan speed knob were replaced.

It is pretty much as you described:

"I'm guessing, but it was very common for Hatteras to install a EFL-16 (twin blower) unit in the salon that is connected to a WFAH-16 Condensing unit remotely located.

The staterooms were likely EFB-X (X being the BTU size) So maybe two EFB-6's controlled by a three knob control in the master...The fwd EFB only had fan speed control, was not meant to shut off, it ran with the master unit....Both of these Air Handlers would have been connected to a Remote WFAH-12....Total air handler BTU must match the compressor/condensing unit BTU...The 3 knob control in the Master, controlled Master AH fan speed, sensed temp in the master, and cycled the compressor on Master stateroom temp"

Sorry for confusing things!!!

 

[spcoolin]

Thanks for looking Gene...But I still need to know if Paul's boat is the same in the engine room...Sometimes they made changes...

Also...Does your original salon Air handler look like this EFB unit:





Or like this EBS unit without the duct box on top:



Steve~

 

[lumina]

HI All,

Steve,

My salon unit looks like your EBS unit, the last photo. It has a like a drum fan with horizontal slots that scoops the air out. The air is forced out the top via an aluminum box type duct.

 

[spcoolin]

HI All,

Steve,

My salon unit looks like your EBS unit, the last photo. It has a like a drum fan with horizontal slots that scoops the air out. The air is forced out the top via an aluminum box type duct.

You mean more like this ?...If so it is a EBO unit...You confused me again with the "Drum" description...
Both the EBS & EBO units have Squirrel Cage blower wheels...Like you would exersize your pet hamster on.



Steve~

 

[lumina]

HI All,,

Yes Steve thats much closer. Squirrel cage is the proper description....at the time all I could think of was drum.

If you look at the picture I've attached turn your attention to the lamp. Right below the lamp is where the air is expelled from the handler via a directional vent. You can also make out the 3 knob swithch, and below that is the air intake vent for the handler. If you remove that panel the handler sits right there on a shelf with the aluminum box duct extending to the vent above.

 

[silverpaul]

Thanks for all the great info so far. I will not be able to visit the boat again until this weekend and I will check on the details. I do know that the salon blower is a squirrel cage type. I will be back in touch when I have the numbers. I will email you, Steve.

Paul

 

[z28jimi]

You mean more like this ?...If so it is a EBO unit...You confused me again with the "Drum" description...
Both the EBS & EBO units have Squirrel Cage blower wheels...Like you would exersize your pet hamster on.

View attachment 11050

Steve~

Steve,
I don't want to hijack this thread, but have a quick question. The EBO unit you show looks a lot like I remember my air handlers looking. Does it seem likely to you that this would be what I have in a 1990 Ocean CPMY? I'd really rather not disassemble all that stuff to get a close look again if I can avoid it, but if you think this is logical, I'll put that type designation aside in case I need to discuss it with you again later.
Thanks,