8D versus 4D

[spcoolin]

This subject is...Well...Funny to me....

What I'm getting at here is...

Battery Size, Type, Life...etc, etc , etc.....Is all relative so to speak....

We see so many threads about batteries, chargers & charging systems...

I have this, Joe had that, another guy had...When I had this...We experienced...Mine lasted this long but when...I replaced with...but they only lasted....

First & Foremost everyone should understand that they go hand in hand....

A poor charging setup will cause battery issues...A poor battery or cell can cause charging issues...charging issues cause battery issues...Battery issues cause charging issues....

Either or both can result in everything everyone is claiming & experiencing....

It's really not as much the battery Type, Brand, Size, etc....But more, Is the SYSTEM setup & calibrated for EVERYTHING in that system...And a failure of even one small part of that System, such as a connection, a cell, a charger setting, etc...Can throw a monkey wrench into the whole thing...

Yes when utilizing a single charging system...All batteries should be of at least the same type...Or else how is the charger going to know what it's dealing with ?

Then you have multiple charging systems...Is each calibrated for the type of batteries it's charging ?...Same thing if you have one bad cell or connection...One weak battery draws all others down, and doesn't allow the good batteries to charge properly thus causes one or more charging system to act up....

Something to ponder guys & gals...When a failure occurs, we have to look at the whole picture, and most times changing brands or types of anything in the SYSTEM, only confuses matters for the rest of that SYSTEM by adding another variable that may hinder finding the original issue

Steve~

We can go on & on...But what I'm saying is there are many variables...And all parts of the "SYSTEM" must be Nominal...

Steve~

 

[Angela]

I am going to try to be nice here, Ang, but golf carts are what I'd call a "Gomer" solution.

If I didn’t have such an overzealous battery charger that has lost its mind, I probably would not have fried batteries in the past - something we learned along the way after we got the boat and ate some batteries along the way as part of the tuition. I need a new charger; I know that, and I’ve learned how to deal with this one in the interim, until we can decide which direction we want to go, by not leaving it on 24/7 which is greatly extending the life of my batteries, now. It's possible to cook an 8D, or anything else, too.

To each his own under each person’s unique circumstances, but this “Gomer” can physically handle the GC batteries, but not the 8Ds, making me just that much less dependent on someone else when I have that need to take care of my boat. I can run the house bank for a few days without turning on the charger, and still start my engines without the use of a parallel switch. Isn’t that the intended function? They work for me (and others) and have for over 5 years now, so why is it so terribly wrong to use 8v GC batteries?

In the absence of an inverter onboard, and considering the way I use my boat, why would I want to have bigger, heavier, more expensive batteries that I cannot handle and that I’d have to get help with, or hire someone to install, to get the same result I get with the GC batteries? Why in the world would I do that to gain no benefit???

In short, if you CAN use them in your specific application, then why not use them? Each owner has to evaluate his boat’s circumstances and make that decision. I do not believe there is a line to be drawn in the sand on this issue where there is a right/wrong, unilaterally. GC batteries are simply another way of making things work - it may not work for everybody, but it does work for a number of people.

Sincerely,
Gomer

 

[rsmith]

Pyle?

If I didn’t have such an overzealous battery charger that has lost its mind, I probably would not have fried batteries in the past - something we learned along the way after we got the boat and ate some batteries along the way as part of the tuition. I need a new charger; I know that, and I’ve learned how to deal with this one in the interim, until we can decide which direction we want to go, by not leaving it on 24/7 which is greatly extending the life of my batteries, now. It's possible to cook an 8D, or anything else, too.

To each his own under each person’s unique circumstances, but this “Gomer” can physically handle the GC batteries, but not the 8Ds, making me just that much less dependent on someone else when I have that need to take care of my boat. I can run the house bank for a few days without turning on the charger, and still start my engines without the use of a parallel switch. Isn’t that the intended function? They work for me (and others) and have for over 5 years now, so why is it so terribly wrong to use 8v GC batteries?

In the absence of an inverter onboard, and considering the way I use my boat, why would I want to have bigger, heavier, more expensive batteries that I cannot handle and that I’d have to get help with, or hire someone to install, to get the same result I get with the GC batteries? Why in the world would I do that to gain no benefit???

In short, if you CAN use them in your specific application, then why not use them? Each owner has to evaluate his boat’s circumstances and make that decision. I do not believe there is a line to be drawn in the sand on this issue where there is a right/wrong, unilaterally. GC batteries are simply another way of making things work - it may not work for everybody, but it does work for a number of people.

Sincerely,
Gomer

 

[Pascal]

actually, as an inverter bank it's hard to beat golf cart batteries since they are meant to be deep cycled...

I installed a 16 GC inverter bank a little over 3 years ago on the boat i run... over the summer on the mooring, that bank goes thru about 80 cycles where the batteries are taken down to 50% charge. that is as deep as you want to cycle lead acids and they're still going strong. Rest of the year, add another 30 or 40 discharge...

we're probably going to replace them over the winter as by then they'd have gone thru over 400 discharge recharge cycle but they're still going strong. again, these are really deep cycles, down to 50%

What GC are not really designed to do is starting engines, although in my experience and others, they do just fine unless your engines are hard starters

 

[GJH]

Golf carts are great for inverter systems. I use 4 L16 scrubber batteries for my dedicated inverter bank. And I may use GCs to replace my two 8D thruster batteries.

I'm glad Steve came in with the voice of reason. It is a systemic issue to be sure. Look, almost all of us "get away with" not-to-spec short cuts here and there. I just think it is not responsible to suggest them to others. Not everyone has the same luck, or puts as much pressure on a given item, especially, as Steve so wisely pointed out, when the item is a component in a bigger system.

Anybody see an OEM boatbuilder use GCs in a starting/housebank ? Just curious.

 

[Boatsb]

Never saw a GC battery in a boat builders list of equipment but I have seen some new boats with worst moron batteries and I have to say that surprised me.

I bet if you took a look at the golf courses you would find plenty of bad batteries even melted ones ( seen it myself) laying around by the repair shed for the carts.

It's sheer numbers that show how few bad 8D batteries are out there of the huge number on vessels which makes me think they are the most reliable option. There are just not enough people with expensive vessels putting golf cart batteries on them to really compare.


By the way did I mention that most battery failures and especially fires are because of poor connections and maintenance.

 

[MikeP]

"By the way I do not have it on a charger and am leaving it for 3-4 weeks sometimes between using it just to see how long it lasts."

Unless there's a drain on them, having no charger for lengthy periods is not an issue at all. I leave a car in winter storage in MD with the batt disconnected/no charger. It has been left alone for as long as 7 months. I connect the battery, hit the starter, and the engine cranks/fires/starts as if it had been run yesterday.

 

[Boatsb]

"By the way I do not have it on a charger and am leaving it for 3-4 weeks sometimes between using it just to see how long it lasts."

Unless there's a drain on them, having no charger for lengthy periods is not an issue at all. I leave a car in winter storage in MD with the batt disconnected/no charger. It has been left alone for as long as 7 months. I connect the battery, hit the starter, and the engine cranks/fires/starts as if it had been run yesterday.

That's why I am seeing how long it lasts. Chargers are often the cause of battery failure.

 

[spcoolin]

SO....Are We in Agreement ?

Ang...Your GC's are Great !!!....They fit the bill....

Joe Cool....Your 8D's....Do the Trick....

Mr Someone...You got series 24 Times.....

So...How do we charge them ?

Ang has her way....

People with Outbacks have their way...

People with What's it called ?...Well another brand of inverter way...

Shit....God forbid....Some folks may even have a SENTRY charger...
Worst thing in the world...

There is Not a Thing Wrong with Golf Cart batteries !!!!
They will start any engine, and just two T-105 6v Trojan's are the same capacity as any 12v 8D in 1/3 the space....
But yet they will do the deep cycle stuff much better than most any 8D truck battery...8D batteries are nothing to brag about...They were designed & built for the truck industry...Marine industry has always been small...We don't get new designs easily...We are a very small market....

Sorry folks...I know the above to be fact from true experience...Not here to argue or display...

The "SYSTEM" still matters in every example....

Steve~

 

[Boatsb]

But will anyone even pay attention to the system and the batteries properties other than mostly price?

I work with real expensive batteries all the time. Not the ones in the boats Professional Video production batteries.

Different chemistry and configurations are for different uses. Some will charge faster but not as many cycles. Others will discharge deeper but can not move high amperage. Some have memory and some burn quite hot. The answer is simple.

Engineers create batteries to meet a need. Starting and deep cycle batteries are quite different. One will work better in a high amp draw environment than the other. If you parallel enough of the deep cycles they can start an engine but that is not what they are made to do. That's why there are more than one kind of battery available.


If I was to have the luxury of an inverter bank separate from my starting batteries I would consider the deep cycle GC batteries but probably go with the lifeline AGM's. Since my engines each have one start battery and one also doubles as the house I think the 8D Extra heavy duty 1400 CCA is the best choice. I have seen people with a group 27 or 31 as a start battery regret not having enough to get the motor running and I would never depend on a parallel switch for every time I start a boat. I did some work on a 49 gulfstar like that and was scared when one batter was bad and it melted the terminal off another.

 

[spcoolin]

But will anyone even pay attention to the system and the batteries properties other than mostly price?

I work with real expensive batteries all the time. Not the ones in the boats Professional Video production batteries.

Different chemistry and configurations are for different uses. Some will charge faster but not as many cycles. Others will discharge deeper but can not move high amperage. Some have memory and some burn quite hot. The answer is simple.

Engineers create batteries to meet a need. Starting and deep cycle batteries are quite different. One will work better in a high amp draw environment than the other. If you parallel enough of the deep cycles they can start an engine but that is not what they are made to do. That's why there are more than one kind of battery available.


If I was to have the luxury of an inverter bank separate from my starting batteries I would consider the deep cycle GC batteries but probably go with the lifeline AGM's. Since my engines each have one start battery and one also doubles as the house I think the 8D Extra heavy duty 1400 CCA is the best choice. I have seen people with a group 27 or 31 as a start battery regret not having enough to get the motor running and I would never depend on a parallel switch for every time I start a boat. I did some work on a 49 gulfstar like that and was scared when one batter was bad and it melted the terminal off another.

Scott~

I'm not here in this thread other than to say....It's All Relative...

Batteries are what they are...We can argue types & styles forever...

Charging systems are what they are...We can argue types & styles forever...

We can also argue which are better for each other....

Some of each are better for each....

One thing is for sure...If they don't fit together or one has a problem with the other...None of it will work well...

It's still all about what works together within NOMINAL parameters (within design) for all...

Steve~

 

[pmurphy]

judging by numbers of PM I got over the years, there are many owners running golf cart batteries in 32v banks with great success. Most are increasing reluctant to mention it in the forums though, for obvious reasons.

I too have been using GC batteries (for the past five years) with reasonably good success. The reason I qualify my answer is that the solution isn't a good one in really cold weather. I avoid starting my engines when a bad cold front hits Florida. It's just too much stress on them for starting. I did have one mishap over the years, when a battery terminal melted. Not sure if the cause was a loose connection or wrong sized cable end. I switched out the cable connections to ones with the proper size hole to fit the GC terminals and have not had an issue since.
Now I'm thinking about getting an inverter but I doubt the GC solution will allow that, although there have been references here otherwise.

 

[Canuck Dennis]

On my 70 here in the PNW I switched to GC's 12 yrs ago, on my second set , 8 per side for 2 32 v systems, 240 v 15 amp inverter runs off the stb'd bank, will not run the fridge/freezer overnite, inverter shuts down on low voltage.

150 amp alternator will let me run the inverter when cruising, fridge/freezer/ice maker. and selectively, coffee maker, one stove element, microwave, dishwasher. etc..

the GC's are 175 ah each and seem to hold up really well if cared for, I keep the main 12 v's pre heated , even in summer, 1/2 turn and they fire.

The GC's do drink water though when really used and that's ordinary tap water which is really soft water here , so, if it ain't broke don't change it.

 

[Boatsb]

I too have been using GC batteries (for the past five years) with reasonably good success. The reason I qualify my answer is that the solution isn't a good one in really cold weather. I avoid starting my engines when a bad cold front hits Florida. It's just too much stress on them for starting. I did have one mishap over the years, when a battery terminal melted. Not sure if the cause was a loose connection or wrong sized cable end. I switched out the cable connections to ones with the proper size hole to fit the GC terminals and have not had an issue since.
Now I'm thinking about getting an inverter but I doubt the GC solution will allow that, although there have been references here otherwise.

An inverter will use lower amperage than starting and they are an acceptable alternative. It's the high draw on starting that can be a problem. If you have a pair of 8 or 1271's that have a problem (like unknowingly the air doors tripped or fuel lost prime) you may burn them up before they start the engines. If everything with the engine is always perfect there should be no problem buy we all know that never happens. Thats how we get battery fires.

 

[krush]

Everybody should just switch to air starters!

 

[q240z]

I wonder if you could convert the forward keel tank to hold air pressure??? lol

 

[rsmith]

Everybody should just switch to air starters!

A friend of mine had a 63 Monterey with 12/92's and air start. Had a series of scuba tanks manifolded together with a compressor setup to refill them. They also had all the engine controls pneumatic like they do in commercial tugs. The setup worked pretty well.

 

[krush]

What about an inertial crank starter like on the old radial airplanes....that would be sweet.