60 minutes/ El Faro

[Mike36c]

Did anyone else see this? The pictures/video was disturbing and the NTSB guessed that the main turbine probably shut down because the prop came out of the water triggering an overspeed. Holy cow, one can only imagine the sea conditions they were in. Unfortunately the blame game is on and more than one of the family members has only dollar signs in their eyes. Sad event.

 

[nor'easter]

The top 2 decks of the superstructure torn off....what a nightmare! So sad for the families of the crew.

 

[Freeebird]

I meant to watch that but forgot about it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-el-faro-lost-in-the-bermuda-triangle/

 

[SEVEN]

With today's electronics how could this happen! Such a shame.

 

[Freeebird]

Electronics weren't the problem.

 

[Mike36c]

Electronics weren't the problem.

200 years ago they had an excuse, not today.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Reminiscent of the Bounty sinking..... all the electronics in the world won't prevent this.

 

[rsmith]

The reports I saw was that the area they were in was only 12' seas. Again like the Bounty which went down in seas that were not all that bad for that size vessel it comes down to poor maintenance. A 40 year old ship at the end of its duty life working in the Caribean is probably a rotted piece of junk. Those of us who know the potential energy of a steam boiler explosion kind of have an idea of what happened. Cold sea water pouring in + superheated steam = kaboom.
Sending guys out to sea in a 40 year old rot bucket is crazy. Oh wait our military is sending guys into combat with 60 year old aircraft as our first line of defense! Never mind!

 

[Avenger]

And you take your friends and family offshore fishing in a boat that is how old?

While I agree that it does come down to maintenance, age by itself is not a disqualifier.

 

[rsmith]

And you take your friends and family offshore fishing in a boat that is how old?

While I agree that it does come down to maintenance, age by itself is not a disqualifier.

That is a good point. When I was a kid wondering around the boat yard most 10 year old boats looked like the SS Minnow. I remember one trip headed north we had left St Augustine cutting straight across to Charleston. The boat was about 12 years old at that point we're well offshore slamming through 6-8' seas with the wind howling out of the north and taking every wave over the tower Boston playing on a continuos loop on the 8 track, my friend looks over at some of the stress cracks in the gel coat and says "I wonder how long these fiberglass boats are going to last before they start cracking up?" Nearly 30 years later I'm still wondering.

 

[rsmith]

Most accidents are usually caused by that missing nail.

For Want of a Nail

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost.
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

 

[Avenger]

Exactly. Every "accident" is a chain of mistakes that leads to a disaster.

I had that conversation with my Uncle the day before he died in a boating accident. He would still be alive if any of the links in that chain had been broken.

I don't know if all the armchair quarterbacks here see the normal realities of shipping. I'd doubt anybody would have shipped aboard the El Faro if they knew this was coming. But if you read The Perfect Storm you'd understand that boats and ships go out to earn a living assuming reasonable risks. In trucking they say "If the wheels ain't turning it ain't earning." They don't park the truck because it's raining, and the same is true of commerce everywhere. There is always an assumption of risk. They're casting this as the shipping company forcing them to sail for a grubby dollar knowing that they were sailing into the Apocalypse, while meanwhile out of the entire crew, having the same knowledge of weather and risks, not a one of them said "This is an unsafe voyage. I'm getting off."

Hindsight is 20/20. The lawyers and news media are trying make it out like foresight should have been 20/0. All in pursuit of a story and their grubby dollar.

 

[oscarvan]

12 foot seas...... maybe.

Technological advances in satellites have allowed worldwide studies of rogue wave occurrences which showed that not only do they exist, they are MUCH more frequent than previously thought and now considered one of the leading causes of sinkings.

There is a distinct possibility that the not too distant hurricane kicked up something nasty.

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/O...king_monster_waves_revealed_by_ESA_satellites

 

[Dan Mapes]

The thing that bugs me most about this is the path chosen. Only 65 miles of space was left between the storm and the path of the ship at one point.

Ok, I would never risk going out in rough weather with our boat. Heck, we don't like crossing the stream unless the f'cast is for 2 feet or less. But geeze only 65 miles of buffer with a hurricane coming?

That and modifications were on going during this transit and others prior.

BTW a friend of ours was crewing on a sailboat in the Salty Dawg rally that was headed into this mess. The captain elected to head for Turks and Caicos due to issues with the boat just as the storm was passing to their South. Our friend has since decided that crewing on these runs is a dumb idea because you don't know the boat, pay your own way etc..

 

[krush]

I haven't followed this closely. I'm just surprised that there was actually a merchant ship left running boilers and steam turbines. I figured only the Navy would have one or two left--because they can afford the fuel.

Off topic: lack of boilers on ships really hurts the skillset in power plants these days.

Turbine could've tripped on overspeed, but that's unlikely. But, even if it did, it's not a big deal to reset it. Flip a lever. But who knows how much the boat was rocking, or if boiler(s) went out, etc. Quite a shame. But 40yrs for a steel boat on the ocean is a long time.

 

[rsmith]

Anyone that follows Deadliest catch knows the Northwestern and the Wizzard. The Northwestern is one of the newer boats built in the 70's and the Wizzard is a ex navy boat from the 40's. Hard to believe these steel hull boats last that long in salt water.

 

[krush]

Those fishing boats are only used for what, 2-4 months a year? Rest of the time is in dock. And, there's no way I'd go out on those fishing boats, have you seen them!??

 

[oscarvan]

Anyone that follows Deadliest catch knows the Northwestern and the Wizzard. The Northwestern is one of the newer boats built in the 70's and the Wizzard is a ex navy boat from the 40's. Hard to believe these steel hull boats last that long in salt water.

There's plenty of steel work boats from the early 1900's floating around in Europe. As long as you keep paint on it it will last a very long time. Most wear and tear is on the waterline, and occasionally some steel needs to be welded on there.