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6-71 TI life?

  • Thread starter Thread starter bobk
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bobk

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  1. OWNER - I own a Hatteras Yacht
Hatteras Model
48' MOTOR YACHT-Series I (1981 - 1984)
Any idea what the typical life of a DD 4-71TI 300 hp or 6-71TI 450 hp engine would be assuming it wasn't abused? Thanks, I'm inquiring for my son who is getting the itch for a bigger boat. The former were put in some Chris' that he is interested in.

Bob
 
I twice sold a 42' Chris 1985 Catalina MY a few years ago. She was powered with the 4-71ti 300's. The boat performed well with that power, although she was a bit noisy. When I re-sold her a few years later with only 1200 hours TT on her, she needed a major. I believe that her low compression issues were more from sitting than from running.

I would not encourage the purchase of any GM powered boat without a full engine survey that included compression test.
 
Eric,
What's with the new Avatar?
 
I sold my 46 Matthews. The avatar is the larger member of the remaining fleet.
 
If I can get a truly-cold start out of a Detroit I can tell you with a very reasonable degree of reliability whether or not it will pass compression. A Detroit that is below minimums is VERY obvious on a true cold start.

Note that a compression test - done properly - is a tricky thing. It has to be done at EXACTLY 600 RPM. If you're off to the high side the compression will look great and if on the low side it will look like dogsqueeze. The injector adapters necessary to do the test are not owned by a lot of mechanics and the time required (typically you do half the cylinders at a time) is significant.

Of more interest to me is an inspection of cylinder condition through the airbox covers using a boroscope and full evaluation on a sea trial. If I'm happy with cold start performance and the condition of the bores on inspection, plus operationally, I'm good.
 
I'm with Karl. It is very expensive to do it correctly, and if the engines are dogs then you could have figured that out without the expense. What if only one cylinder is low? You still have to tear down the engine to fix it. A million questions and options are available. Use all your investigative tools before going down the path of the compression check. I have seen a slick broker or two talk a prospective buyer into this to seal the deal. Beware, there are several "tricks" to make the cylinder pressures look good. Karl touched on one of them, which is run the rpm up a little to compensate. A little oil shot on top will temporarily "fix" a bad cylinder during the test.

My father once told me when I sat down to play poker that if I didn't know who the mark was before I sat down at the table, that I would soon learn who it is.
 
Thanks guys. I passed your replies along to my son. And of course I used the 30 second compression test per Karl's recommendation a couple of years ago when I bought the 48MY.

Some of the boats my son is interested in are so far away, that I was looking for some general guidance about engine life before we take a trip to eyeball the boat.

Bob
 
Karl:

What is the minimum compression for a 671 TI and what is the acceptable spread between minimum and maximum readings on different cylinders?
 
If I remember correctly (I don't have my book in front of me) its 425 and I like no more than a 5% variance high to low. Note that naturals have a significantly higher compression ratio and thus a significantly higher minimum spec.

Note that technique in measurement counts.

As I have said, I'm FAR more interested in a boroscope than a formal compression test. If the "30 second" style that I wrote about passes then you do a boroscope. If that shows good airbox, cylinder, crown and skirt condition the odds of you failing a formal compression are extremely low. You want to do the boroscope anyway, as a compression won't tell you what the piston skirts, crowns and holes look like, nor tell you anything about airbox deposits, and all are worth knowing.

You're going to spend upwards of $600 per engine to have a compression done by anyone who is competent to do so; it requires a full tuneup (including valves) as you must pull all six injectors (three at a time) to do the test, and since you are disturbing both the rack and the rockers the only correct procedure is to do a full tuneup "by the book" when you're done.

Oh, the test is also supposed to be performed "hot". Forget that (unless you want to take a full day - get it good and hot, do the first half, put the three back in you took out, tune the engine, get it hot AGAIN and do the second half), but "warm" is absolutely necessary or you will get bogus results.

After the "cold start" test (that one's free) if I'm still interested I would proceed to a boroscope. If the boroscope doesn't identify a problem or I have a horrid result on the 30-second start test (no boroscope needed in that case!) I would probably attempt to negotiate for rebuilds right up front and failing that, pass on the boat rather than spend $1200 to tell me what I already know. If the cold start and boroscope are both clean then I want to see the boat run; key for me there is that it easily reaches rated WOT RPM (WOT + 50 is what I'm actually looking for if the boat is light, and it probably will be since its being sold) and everything is within spec, including operating temperatures for water and oil along with oil pressure, especially at idle when HOT (right after coming off plane from cruise.) That tells you a fair bit about main bearing condition (20+psi is good, 15 psi ok, 10psi absolute minimum at 550 RPM idle in gear with the engine having just come off plane)

If the boat is overpropped that's a serious black mark on expected engine life, all else being equal. If hot idle oil pressure is low, ditto - you've got a full overhaul including mains in your future.

If the cold start fails the owner knows. Its impossible for him not to. This is the primary reason that 99 times out of 100 the compression test is a waste of money; you're just documenting what the owner already is FULLY aware of every time he pushes the botton in the morning.

If the cold start test fails a boroscope either reveals the cause (in which case you have your negotiating leverage) or you're in for a war with the owner who already knows the engines are below minimums. He's either going to give you a reasonable adjustment or he is not. The $1200 you're going to spend is almost never going to be the critical piece that gets him to say yes and if he says no you're out the $1200 for nothing.

I've seen several 6-71TIBs with compression in the 380-400ish range and while they ran fine once warmed up there was absolutely no doubt of any sort that they were under minimums on a cold start. You could easily use those engines as mosquito control devices in the middle of the Everglades and kill every bug within a mile, and without preheat starting them in temperatures under 60F or so was a SEVERE test of battery condition. Below 40-50F I doubt they'd light without assistance no matter what you did.

On the TIBs the back two holes have a habit of going first. I've never seen a satisfactory explanation as to why, but its a pattern that I've noted over ~20 years of observation. The best explanation I can come up with is that the bypass valve is at the rear of the blower but that's not really a satisfactory explanation as it shouldn't matter - but the fact remains that on a tired 6-71TIB the rear two holes, on tear-down, will almost always be in the worst shape.
 
You have gotten lots of good advice you originaly asked about hours and what to expect. Typicaly a high HP turbo engine in a boat that's run up on plane but not beaten to death and assuming good maintenance should have 1500 hours of good clean operation. If it's been run easy (but not reall slow and cold) with good maintenance I'd say maybe 2500 hours. If it's been run hard with poor maintenance it may fail or be worn out much sooner.

When evaluating an engines condition the 30sec compression test and oil analysis air box inspection and sea trial are the simplest and best first steps. Then as karl suggested a bore scope examination the compression test is time consuming and expensive and in most cases I would be comfortable without it.

I would be very cautious and maybe do a random compression test if felt the owner knows engines. I've seen engines running on dyed kerosene loaded with cetane boosters and that will make a pretty worn engine look much better on a cold start. I've seen oil filters with dates on them showing 50 hours of operation when in fact the oil and filters were just changed. That will make oil analysis look good. I've seen electric guages with resistors or potentiometers wired in to lower temps or increase oil pressure and lots of other stuff like that. So my radar goes up if I fell the owners has good knowledge of engines. Luckily most don't but it's something to consider a bore scope or compression test can't be corrupted.

Brian
 
BTW, that oil presusre measurement? It has to be off a MECHANICAL gauge.

If the boat doesn't have 'em in the engine room then you need to temporarily stick one in the sending block and add that to your "must install immediately" list if you buy it.

Never trust electrical gauges as anything other than a relative indication.
 

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