2nd generator on a SF

[madhatter1]

Not thinking about it, going to add one. Ran the boat inland to get away from the storm to a spot that has no dock power. Something is going on with the pickup on my existing generator where it’s getting air in the Racor and seemingly starving for fuel. Running only one AC was going well until it wasn’t. Hot humid night!

So I’m well on top of my AC units and have redundancy options but if the power goes out, no options. We use the boat on the hook and want to do it more so this seems like a good investment. Right now I’m looking at Phasor (for both reputation and simplicity) in the 6.5-8KW flavors. Understand I will have to alternate to keep both exorcised and running. Plan is to install under the cockpit behind the main tank. Very dry due to the gunnel intakes. Almost zero corrosion on anything under the cockpit.

Posting this to say please critique me and make sure I’m not missing anything. Also the plan for switching generator source will be down in my engine room. I have a hinged hatch so not a big deal and doing this for my needs. Plan is to pull main generator feed out and go to a switch that will be then fed from each generator. So like Highlander, there can be only one.

 

[carolinacoast]

Not a SF, but my #2 is a phasor. PO put it in for those same reasons. Switch between main & aux is in gen. room space. Have just 1 thru hull, which is not ideal, but has worked fine. plumbed like a manifold.

 

[madhatter1]

I will have 2nd through hull and fuel pickup for best redundancy. Thanks.

 

[whoover]

I feel your generator pain. At some time the fuel pickup for my generator was removed and when put back in they missed the bracket in the bottom of the tank that stabilizes the end. It was cracked in many places from fuel sloshing around. Once it was replaced all was good. Just a thought on the possible issue.

Walt Hoover

 

[Moonhowler]

Another approach may be to put a couple of big LiPo batteries in and install some solar panels. We went that route - BoatsB (Scott) did a great job designing a system and we get about 6 hours running 1 AC overnight. The total cost can be a bit more than an additional generator, however it adds a quiet alternative that doesn't use fuel when on the hook. We have to be mindful of what AC systems are running - for example, we have a countertop ice maker that is a power hog, so we bag up some ice and put it in the freezer, turn the hog off. We use the stove while the generator is running - hot water heater too - switch them off before we power generator down, but if we can get through a night without listening to the generator - it's a victory.

When in home waters - just doing a booze cruise for a few hours or a day of fishing, we don't even crank the generator.

 

[Pascal]

Having twin gen brings you peace of mind. Worth it if you use the boat a lot.

Have you checked the racor? I had a problem a few months ago where my 18 Norpro wasn’t putting out full power to the point where it was hunting with only one chiller on. Turned out to be the plastic plug in the racor bowl that was leaking and sucking air.

 

[Cricket]

We have almost 6,000 pretty trouble free hours on our 3 cylinder 15kw Phasor. First big issue just happened which was a fuel seal leak in the injector pump, $650 later we're good to go. We have been pretty diligent in changing the fresh and raw water pumps ever 2,000 hours or so and did put a new heat exchange on, only because it was 20 years old, and the isolator mounts either dry rotted or wore out at about 18 years.
I don't like generators under the back deck, more vibration and most likely damp.

 

[madhatter1]

I will check the Racor today. Installation under the cockpit is my only option as it’s the only available space. It is actually very dry under there with zero corrosion on anything. Air intakes are under gunnel so all engine air passes through the space under the cockpit to the engine room. Downside of this is in the cockpit at anchor noise from the generator is a little annoying. The weight of the generator will be offset by removing all the fuel (150gallons) from my keel tank that we never use. I let that sit so long unused that it developed algae and starboard engine fuel line is clogged.

As for any downsides to mounting new generator under cockpit I’m good with that. As long as we have power. Once installed and running I’ll figure out best time to use aft set to exercise. Probably use aft when running and original on the hook.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Do you have the option of a sound enclosure when you install it? I don't know if Phasor offers them.

 

[Boatsb]

They have a nice aluminum enclosure available. Great company to work with.

I have a 17.5 KW and a 9.5 KW at my shop awaiting install on 2 customers boats. They're a great choice for replacement of older units on these classic boats.

First thing I'd do is get the existing one right or replaced.

 

[Captain Ralph]

I may have missed it, what is your first gen-set brand?

I'm a big fan of redundancy, including similar gen-sets. So even on one of those Murphy nights, some parts are interchangeable.

Both of our gen-set ends are Stanford. Same AVR and SAE #3 bolt pattern. All I could do with a free engine. Both sets use the same oil & fuel filters.

I've been installing 12 & 20 NL gen-set, sets. lots of interchangeable parts between the two.

Just something to consider.

Oh, Don't forget oil changing hose connection to already installed oil change pump.
Lots of gen-set oil changes during our extended trips.

 

[JD5652]

I might be in the minority on this one, but for a 46 foot SF, I'd opt for a brand new NL 10-12 kW (or whatever size is appropriate) with all new fuel connections, etc.

A brand new appropriately sized generator would provide many, many years of great reliability.

Just my $0.02...

 

[Briankinley2004]

Madhatter you are welcome to come look at my set up. The prior owner installed an 8 KW Northern Lights in the cockpit lazerrete. I have 8V71's and have trouble planing sometimes. I blame the extra 700# back there. You have 92's so shouldn't be an issue. I have thought about selling my NL and Oh No and putting a newer 15KW to remove the excess weight. Mine stays dry but I do have saltwater get in around the hatch but the generator is protected. The 8 KW will run a couple of A/c's and misc items but will not run the entire boat like the 15KW will

 

[Bob Bradley]

I get the comfort of redundant systems. But in my experience, at least since I dumped the Onan on my previous boat and replace it with a Norpro (don't think they're in business any more), I've had very dependable gennies. My "new" 45 came with a NL 8kw. Had about 3000 hours on it, now has about 4000. Other than a clogged fuel filter, it has never let me down in the 3 seasons and 1000 hours that it has been running. It is slightly under powered. 2 ACs, an oven running, and the water heater kicking in will overwhelm it. I wish it were 12kw, but I work with it.

Yours has a fuel problem, and that sucks, but just fix the problem. Spending the money on a new one, and adding all that weight, and losing the storage space, and adding the possible salt water exposure just doesn't seem worth it to me. If you really don't trust the one you have, put the money there. Either way, you still have to fix the existing problem. Just my 2 cents.

 

[madhatter1]

Madhatter you are welcome to come look at my set up. The prior owner installed an 8 KW Northern Lights in the cockpit lazerrete. I have 8V71's and have trouble planing sometimes. I blame the extra 700# back there. You have 92's so shouldn't be an issue. I have thought about selling my NL and Oh No and putting a newer 15KW to remove the excess weight. Mine stays dry but I do have saltwater get in around the hatch but the generator is protected. The 8 KW will run a couple of A/c's and misc items but will not run the entire boat like the 15KW will

Brian, I do want to see your setup before we install ours. Same exact boat so sure to be a help. Probably won't be until December as I am super busy. Also if you boat is propped correct your problem planning is most likely not the extra generator weight. I had problems planning (propped correctly) and the issue was adjustment of the throttle delays that limit fuel until certain boost pressure ore time delay is met. 2 types from what I learned. Anyway Wayne at Anclote adjusted mine to give me more control over planning. Did not remove the delays but adjusted them to where I could "roll coal" if I wanted to. Never do of coarse and gingerly bring up the power but no longer sitting at full throttle waiting for turbo's to spool up. Does this sound like your situation or dealing with actual underpower. I know you were removing a lot of excess weight from the boat.

 

[Cricket]

Was just rereading this thread. If it was me I would add an additional fuel feed and return for the 2nd genset for full redundancy.

 

[Briankinley2004]

Madhatter that sounds good. You can look whenever you wish. I may be down in Tarpon after Christmas for a few days. I need to reach out to Anclote to look at mine. My trim tabs have not been working properly and were on my short list until this storm messed the house up. I think that may be part of the issue. I think I am slightly over propped. I can get 2450 high idle and got 2200 running when the bottom was fresh and tabs ok. I was a little light on fuel then. I think I need to take out another inch of pitch but need to verify with a tach first. I think mine is more of underpowered for weight. It is not a time issue. It is she dont "break over the wave" with the tabs up. Kind of like when you are climbing a wave in a following sea.

 

[madhatter1]

Well, generator is fixed! PB Blaster on the copper fitting to Racor inlet made easy work of the years in place and broke free right away. Threading off the fitting fuel came out. Valve to Racor is off so gravity feeding from the tank. A lot free flowing. So button that up and rule out the pickup and lines. Next in line is the fuel pump. Hold button and it sounds like its working. Crack the banjo fitting at the injector pump and yep, defiantly working. Look at secondary filter and it looks like it hasn't been changed in years. Change that out and boom, generator can handle a load. Ran for 30 minutes with 3 AC's running and the oven on. 6300 watts continuous load. Not even a hiccup.

So from now on I'll let mechanics handle DD 2 stroke stuff (including all fuel filters), all generator and engine zincs, and I'll handle everything else unless I get into something that is over my head. Still adding the 2nd gen. Going with a Phasor 6.5 or 8 KW. Separate fuel pickup and return shared with the main generator, probably with a switchover valve so no backfeed.

On the bright side this is one more thing I can troubleshoot and fix on my own. Sure problem solved if I just changed the filters first but I was able to trace things through and prove them out. If you're not handy you can find yourself stuck. I'll never forget that hot night in Labelle!

 

[madhatter1]

Generator ordered! Phasor compact 8 KW. Member Briankinley2004 has sent me pix of his very clean install of his in the same place on same boat. So very optimistic we get this right. No room for a sound shield but did order the SS drip pan. Purchasing the gen through Boatsb here on the site. Figuring out the wiring and switch over stuff and then I'll let Renovators Yacht in St Pete do their thing.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Quite a few HOF Hatteras owners have Phasor gensets, and no complaints about them. They've been around for years and clearly a quality product.