1969 Chris Craft Roamer 46 refit

[q240z]

Thanks John.

Take a good solid look at the video I posted to my blog from the ER on splash day. The first two cranks look...enthusiastic. Like there's no electrical connection problem. And I already confirmed as part of my pre-splash checklist that all start and run electrical connections are solid.

On Cummins engines, the fuel supply "hold" solenoid comes on with the ignition and only requires 1-2 amps. So if the problem was electrical, the connection would have to be so bad that it couldn't even maintain 1-2a @12vdc when the engine shut down. But when I attempted to restart the engines in the video, you can see that the starter is trying to rotate the crankshaft. Certainly, that's a draw of more than 1-2 amps...

I've watched that video a dozen times or more looking for clues, but I'm just not seeing anything helpful.

 

[johnjen50]

So watched the video again. To me it seemed like the started was engaged for a LONG time when trying to get the engine going, and I wasn’t able to determine if the started actually disengaged once the engine did start. If it didn’t disengage properly it could be jammed, meaning the solenoid threw the starter gear out to catch the flywheel, but then because it didn’t disengage the starter gear jammed up and maybe is still that way. How far did you bar the engine over by hand. Maybe try a full rotation if you didn’t already. Starter is doing something, and if it has proper voltage I’m betting the problem is starter related.

 

[Captain Ralph]

I can not remember, do you have a fuel cooler before the engine?
Or, the air cooler is leaking.
Water in the fuel??

Its a low compression engine, you can slowly bar it over, the starter can not quickly turn it over.

Pull the injectors, spray some oil in there quickly and spin them over then with sea cock closed.

Your going to bend a rod if you keep trying to turn it over with water in the lungs.
Please pull the injectors to prove me wrong.

 

[q240z]

I can not remember, do you have a fuel cooler before the engine?
Or, the air cooler is leaking.
Water in the fuel??

Its a low compression engine, you can slowly bar it over, the starter can not quickly turn it over.

Pull the injectors, spray some oil in there quickly and spin them over then with sea cock closed.

Your going to bend a rod if you keep trying to turn it over with water in the lungs.
Please pull the injectors to prove me wrong.

There's no fuel cooler on these engines. There's nothing but diesel in the tanks.

Watch the video on the linked page. The starter turned the engine over normally (ie quickly) twice. Then it wouldn't/couldnt.

The majority of my blog post today was documenting the fact that I checked both intake and exhaust to confirm that no raw water was ingested. What did I miss? Why do you think there's water in the lungs?

 

[q240z]

So watched the video again. To me it seemed like the started was engaged for a LONG time when trying to get the engine going, and I wasn’t able to determine if the started actually disengaged once the engine did start. If it didn’t disengage properly it could be jammed, meaning the solenoid threw the starter gear out to catch the flywheel, but then because it didn’t disengage the starter gear jammed up and maybe is still that way. How far did you bar the engine over by hand. Maybe try a full rotation if you didn’t already. Starter is doing something, and if it has proper voltage I’m betting the problem is starter related.

The starter was engaged for ~10 seconds when the injector pump was clearing air. This is normal for Cummins engines, as I understand it. The Cummins manual recommends cracking open an injector line and cranking the starter until fuel flows. But there are alternative methods I learned from Tony Athens over at Sea Board Marine that are as effective and don't overwork the starter.

When the video text at the linked blog article says the idle stabilized, the engine is running and I'd returned the key to the RUN/IGN position.

As I indicated in the linked article, I barred the engine over for at least eight full revolutions of the crankshaft.

Please let me know how a starter problem would explain what happened in the video. By which I mean, the engine started on the second twist, idled normally, and then died. Then wouldn't restart.

I'm perfectly willing to admit I missed something. But I can't understand how a starter could work perfectly, then affect the 'fuel hold' solenoid so the engine shuts down 13 seconds after the starter was off.

 

[madhatter1]

Tie wire the fuel solenoid to run position. Worse case if this is the issue is you have to unwire it to manually shut down.

 

[q240z]

Tie wire the fuel solenoid to run position. Worse case if this is the issue is you have to unwire it to manually shut down.

I plan on tunnelling into the electrical possibilities tomorrow. My concern with wire-tying the fuel solenoid is that there's maybe something else entirely that caused the shutdown and other symptoms.

Having proven that water could not have been ingested through the intake or exhaust, I wonder about the raw water pump. I've read quite a bit on Tony Athens' site about engineering problems with the Sherwood pumps on these engines. He uses all sorts of creative language to describe the failures, so I'm not sure if what I'm seeing is possibly one of those.

The damage a loose seawater pump gear could do, for example, is pretty massive. Heck, a lose bolt on the pump shaft that attaches to the gear can break lots of stuff, based on what I've seen on Tony's site. So I hesitate to hot-wire the fuel injection pump when the problem could be a failing seawater pump. If I hot-wire it and crank the starter, turning the key off won't stop the potential carnage.

This is so frustrating.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Thanks guys!
What sort of issues did you have to deal with?

Transmissions were sold to me as 2:1 reduction but turned out to be 1.5:1 and had to order new trans which took 9 months.
New engines had to get updated software flashed into the ECM's to correct low voltage alarm
Fuel hoses were too small
Props were wrong
Leaking intake piping on stbd engine between seacock and strainer
Blown stabilizer hydraulic line
Debris in stabilizer line that caused restriction in shuttle valve
Plugged sewage line from being moved around during the repower(loosened all of the calcified stuff in the hose).

etc, etc..........


It takes time to work out the bugs. But that is just part of the process.

 

[q240z]

Thanks Sky!

Drumroll please...the starboard engine LIVES!

I went through all of the electrics and found nothing wrong. Just as I was beginning to dread the thought of having to pull the starter, I noticed something funny with one of the starter bolts. Turns out it was finger-tight! The mechanic who sold me the engines must have used that as the negative battery cable attachment point, but didn't snug it up when he removed the cables and shipped the engines to me. I torqued it to spec and the boat test fired four times flawlessly!

Now I'm just waiting on the new seacock, which should arrive tomorrow.

1969 Chris Craft Roamer 46 Refit: Starboard Engine is Back in Business!

Cheers,
Q

 

[johnjen50]

Fantastic! So excited for you. Good luck Quentin………..NOW THERES JUST EVRYTHING ELSE TO WORRY ABOUT!!!!

 

[jim rosenthal]

For anyone who hasn't seen this vessel, if you're in the area, it's very much worth seeing.

 

[q240z]

Thanks for helping out today, Jim!

My 1969 Chris Craft Roamer 46 is floating in Rock Creek, MD, after a successful splash with a nearly dry bilge, followed by an idle speed maiden voyage out to the Herring Bay jetty and back! Oh...and the loose starter bolt problem ended up not being the actual problem. It was voodoo, man!

1969 Chris Craft Roamer 46 Refit: Splash Day Redux

Cheers,
Q

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Looks Great!!

 

[warrenw]

Q,

What a great looking boat, you really went above and beyond with this refit. I'm also happy you documented it, I have been following along all of these years.

I was studying your out of water photos and I'm amazed at how different the 46 Roamer hull form is compared to my 47 Commander, especially how the chine is at its greatest depth mid ship and rises again towards the transom. It's going to be really interesting to see how she performs during sea trial - my guess is very well.

 

[SEVEN]

Congratulations. Most would have never completed it. You made her a new boat. Just beautiful.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Jabsco used to manufacture a larger diaphragm pump with 1" inlet and outlet. They are better built than the one you illustrated, which is indeed overpriced- and fragile. You are right that the Shurflo, or any other self-priming pump at half the price is a much better deal. Jabsco is still selling the same designs they were in the 60s and 70s. (so are Rule, come to think of it) If you are lucky enough to have one of the big Jabsco diaphragm pumps, they do still sell parts for them. like motors, valves, gaskets, etc.

The Roamer is beautiful. You've done a fantastic job against formidable odds and you should be very pleased with how it's turned out. I'll leave questions of philosophy and metaphysics to those more capable of abstract thinking. Suffice to say that it's the best, bar none, boat restoration I have ever seen anywhere. Nothing else comes close.

 

[eze2bme]

She's a beauty - congratulations!!

 

[sgharford]

I feel like I'm signing the guest book at a Wedding or a 50th Anniversary party. Dare I compare there has not been such a wonderful thread since Yachtsmanbill's The Big Chill and his restoration of a 58TC. I've been rooting for you on the sidelines for many years and so happy to see you complete this epic restoration. I really hope you get decades of trouble free enjoyment from her, you certainly put in the time and deserve such.

 

[nor'easter]

She is a looker!

 

[Dan Mapes]

Fantastic! I remember how it felt to get the boat in the water after Winter. I cannot imagine how gratifying this launch must feel. Congratulations!