Hull Paint

[Liquid Asset]

We are concidering repainting the hull when we haul out in December. Right now, our color thoughts are an Ice Blue or a Light yellow. I know many of you have worked with a lot of different paints, but I just wanted to get your thoughts on Imron vs. Algrip vs. Sterling. I know the boat has imron on it currently, but is it ok to go over it with another type of paint, or does the yard need to totally remove the paint down to the gellcoat before going back with another brand of paint if we decide to not use Imron? Thanks.

 

[Boatsb]

They can put awlgrip over Imron if primed right and I guess the same for sterling But preparation is the key. The amount of the old paint they remove will be based on the condition of it.

 

[Brian Degulis]

All of the paints you metioned are 2 part urethanes so yes they are compatable with each other as far as re coating goes. Some people will swear by one over the other I think that's nonsense they all work and look great. We use Awlgrip only because it is readily available to us and we know the system. I would suggest you use whatever your yard normally uses that way you will avoid problems that might come up if they have to learn a new system.

Brian

 

[67hat34c]

difference between awlgrip and imron. the surface of awlgrip is the finished surface, it cant be polished with abrasives, in basic terms the finish resins go to the top in this paint. the surface resins in Imron stay throught the entire finish coat and can be buffed down.

awlgrip finish will never need buffing as long as you maintain it with a coat of awlcare once a year. which reminds me we are over due for this.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

I was always an Awlgrip fan until we bought our 1986 36' Hatteras. That factory Imron paint looks like new after 20 years. I wheel it annually with 3M Finessit II, (although I am going to try a different 3M product this year). If you can keep a boat looking like the day it was painted for 20 years and beyond, why would you switch. Imron goes on smoother with no orange peel tendencies, costs less, and looks better longer. my sailboat was painted in 1985 with Awlgrip and still looks OK, but no where near as nice as our Hatteras. My vote is for Imron. I also must say that if I ever went away from the classic Hatteras white, I would paint the boat "Ice Blue".

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I agree with Maynard here. You can't beat the durability of Imron. We use it on commercial trucks and construction equipment and it lasts better than anything else out there.

 

[DCMY #92]

My vote goes to Imron - mostly because I had the boat painted with Awlgrip the last time in 99. The 8 year old Awlgrip has now lost its gloss on the top sides (outside in Florida). The Awlgrip folks say there is nothing to do but repaint. I spent a small fortune washing a wiping with the recommended Awlgrip maintenance products to no avail. I was much happier with the Imron that was on the boat in when I bought her in 81 and the Rustoleum Industrial Polyester Urethane that held up great from 84 to 97.

 

[Brian Degulis]

If your Awlgrip is faded and chaulky Compound and wax. If the finish is good you don't want to do that but if it's lost it's gloss that should bring it back. Some will jump up and down screaming you can't compound Awlgrip and you shouldn't as a routine but if it's aged no problem.

Brian

 

[Boss Lady]

If you buff awlgrip, it will dull out again in a few days.

 

[Jaxfishgyd]

I painted our hull with Awlgrip on 2004 (it was painted with HOUSEPAINT by the PO.) It took 11 days of sanding by myself, wife and one to two friends to get that paint off. That costed me a lot of beer and pizza.

The reason for Awlgrip was easy, my best friend is the regional manager for marine company and I got it for his price.

The hull still looks super, I rolled it, never had to tip it . It's not what a marine painter would of done, but the prices I got at Lambs Marine and Huckins Boat yard ranged from $28,000-$34,000.

I did it for UNDER $2800, including 17 days at a DIY marina, and that included me putting 3 coats of bottom paint on and having the props fixed and rebalanced.......

 

[Brian Degulis]

If you buff awlgrip, it will dull out again in a few days.

What nonsense been doing that for years holds the shine just like any other urethane.

Brian

 

[Boss Lady]

Are you sure you have awlgrip paint?

this is from there product sheet:

AWLGRIP® TOPCOATS

Features & Uses

A two component, polyester based, light-fast, linear aliphatic polyurethane coating with long lasting gloss and color retention, and outstanding chemical resistance. Do not use below the waterline. A low maintenance coating. Do not wax, buff, compound, or polish.

AwlCraft 2000-Topcoat
Acrylic Urethane Topcoat
A two component, fast drying acrylic urethane coating with long lasting gloss and color retention. Provides an easy to apply, buffable finish.

Awlcraft can be polished and buffed, but awlgrip finishes out differently than conventional polyurethanes like Imeron or awlcraft.

 

[ThirdHatt]

Imron is a much softer paint than Awlgrip, that is why it sands and buffs so easily. With a buffer, and Imron job can last almost indefinitely. For someone who doesn't mind buffing/polishing (or paying someone to) their boat regularly after the first few years, Imron is the way to go. For someone that would rather just wash and never worry about a buffer or waxing regularly or finding someone to do it right, Awlgrip is the way to go. They are both excellent coatings and you really can't go wrong with either.

Awlgrip is a Linear Polyurethane. It is tougher, harder and unlike any other coating out there. It is rediculously hard and shines better than anything, but it will eventually fade as any paint will. Awlgrip says not to buff or sand the paint but those who are in the business of spraying it know that a small run or dirt particle can be carefully sanded and polished away with LITTLE detrimental effect. I've seen the yard do it to make imperfections go away on other Awlgrip jobs that have been sitting in direct sunlight for months since and I still can't see the repairs. I'm sure after some time they will show before the rest of the surface begins to fade.

I asked the yard that sprayed my boat with Awlgrip to leave the few imperfections alone. There are a few pieces of dirt here and there if you look closely and a small run or two. The yard wanted to "make them dissapear" but I chose to live with them and know that the coating strength/durability has not been comprimised. When I scratch the finish in the future, I will touch up with Awlgrip using the roll and tip method (with the appropriate reducer) and it will look just fine, although not as good as an Imron touch-up that can be easily buffed to dissapear.

Brian is right though, if it were 8 or 10 years down the road and my Awlgrip were dulling, I sure wouldn't hesitate to let an expert throw a buffer on it and see what happens. It's already dull, so what could it hurt?

 

[Boss Lady]

I didn't say it couldn't be done, I was trying to say that unlike buffing out other paints that get oxidized, awlgrip dulls out very quickly. You can expend a lot of effort and then be very disappointed. This topic gets discussed regularly on many forums, just google it and you will see that many people have tried to revive old awlgrip without success. Maybe Brian has a secret formula for doing this, if he does there are a lot of people who would be interested. I suspect, based upon my experience that if he has been successfully buffing his paint, then it is not awlgrip.

 

[Boss Lady]

The problem with the polyester's, like Awlgrip and Sterling, is when they cure a thin hard surface is formed like a built in clear coat. If you try to buff Awlgrip or Sterling you will remove this layer which gives Awlgrip its' shine and expose the pigment. Most people don't realize that this very thin surface layer is made up of mostly the clear solids. Alwgrip cures with the clear solids rising to the surface to protect the pigment layer. When buffing Awlgrip, you will cut through this thin outer layer quite quickly using compounds. Once you've done that you'll be a slave to the Awlgrip until it's worn away or re-painted. We've all seen Awlgrip that's been chaffed by a fender or abused, you can buff this and two days later it looks just like it did before you started.

Contrast this with Imeron or Awlcraft, and the shine comes from the actual surface finish, this is why you can sand it, and then polish it back to a shine. Imeron is consistent throughout and does not seperate out like awlgrip.

Here is one person's experience buffing awlgrip: http://sv-galena.livejournal.com/31930.html

Hope this helps.

 

[Brian Degulis]

Re: Hull Painting

The problem with the polyester's, like Awlgrip and Sterling, is when they cure a thin hard surface is formed like a built in clear coat. If you try to buff Awlgrip or Sterling you will remove this layer which gives Awlgrip its' shine and expose the pigment. Most people don't realize that this very thin surface layer is made up of mostly the clear solids. Alwgrip cures with the clear solids rising to the surface to protect the pigment layer. When buffing Awlgrip, you will cut through this thin outer layer quite quickly using compounds. Once you've done that you'll be a slave to the Awlgrip until it's worn away or re-painted. We've all seen Awlgrip that's been chaffed by a fender or abused, you can buff this and two days later it looks just like it did before you started.

Contrast this with Imeron or Awlcraft, and the shine comes from the actual surface finish, this is why you can sand it, and then polish it back to a shine. Imeron is consistent throughout and does not seperate out like awlgrips.

Your very good at research but like most E experts your information doesn't come from any extensive practical experience. For those of you that have old faded Awlgrip just try some 3M Fiberglass restorer with wax. Do a small section by hand then see if it un shines and re fades in a few days you just might be able to put off the paint job for years.

Brian

 

[surfdancer45]

Be careful when taling about Awlgrip maintenance. The regular "Awlgrip" will lose some gloss when sanded, restored and buffed unless a wax or polish is applied and that becomes a new regular maintence item. "Awlcraft 2000", like Imron, can be sanded restored and then buffed with Fineess and look like new. The Awlcraft is not as hard as Awlgrip on heavy wear surfaces. I recently repainted my 36 spraying Awlcraft and then finished decks and nonskid with Awlgrip. Awlcraft can only be spray applied, Awlgrip can be spayed or rolled. The best gloss retention paint now is Alexseal but to my knowledge it has to be professioally applied. My 2 cents Bob

 

[Brian Degulis]

That's true Awlgrip should never be buffed or waxed as a matter of routine maintenance. We are talking about Awlgrip that's faded and shot when it gets to that point the resin layer is gone. Buffing and waxing is a way to prolong repainting and provided there is still enough paint left to work with this will work just as well as it does on any gel coated surface that has faded out.

Brian

 

[Boss Lady]

I have restored finishes on cars, boats and even a 1962 Piper Comanche 250. The Piper still has its' original Red and off-white Laquer paint. My friend who bought it from the original owner wanted to repaint because the paint was dull and almost pink looking. I convinced him to let me buff a section to prove it could be done. The plane looked like new money when we finished. That was 6 years ago and it still looks blood red. Partly because the plane is hangered and the sun does not beat down it everyday. Removing the oxidized paint instantly brought back the color and then a high polish brought back the shine. This shine is the result of polishing the Laquer paint surface and not because of a shine provided by a wax or other coating.

Many types of paint lend themselves to refinishing as they age. Johnsons car wax used to have micro-abrasives in the wax that helped remove the microscopic oxidation each time you waxed your car. Back when cars were painted with Laquer and enamel as long as you regularly waxed your car with waxes of the day it maintained a high shine and deep color. Johnsons removed the micro-abrasives with the advent of clear coat paint, since they had many lawsuits from scratched (hazed) clear coats.

I grew up in Panama City,Florida. as a teenager I worked at Bay Point Marina and Yacht Club, my experience there along with two Full Size Cadillacs, a Chevy Station wagon and a 63' Chris Craft Constellation as the family boat, I got an early introduction to maintaining paint finishes. Guess who was the boat slave?

My lifelong friend who is a professional Captain for almost 30 years, he and I worked at this marina. along with his older brother, before their dad started Half-hitch Tackle. His brother (family) still owns Half-hitch tackle in Panama City. http://www.halfhitch.com/aboutus.asp

Yea, I learned everything from the internet.

 

[MikeP]

Although I am an Imron fan, having shot it on cars, bikes, boats, and planes since 1978, the last post illustrates one critical item. A PROPERLY prepped and applied finish, regardless of what it is, will outlast a substandard prep regardless of how great the paint. I'd take a well done acrylic lacquer in a heartbeat over badly done Imron, Awlgrip, or whatever.

As someone stated - If you've found a good paint-man, go with whatever he uses.