12-71 rebuild pics

[Tawney1]

After over two months, the port engine is now reassembled -- together with a new alternator and rebuilt starter. What was supposed to be a four week job, is now going on three months.

According to Covington Diesel, getting parts has been a real problem. We were unable to get rebuilt heads from the factory for the starboard engine, so we are opting to have the existing heads rebuilt. The cylinder kits are now in the starboard engine and they are working on the mains.

As I reported in my first post, no A-frame was built to raise the engine as we had originally planned. After removing the oil pan, etc., the lead mechanic was (is) actually able to get completely under the engine.

For those of you who found that hard to believe -- check out the attached photos!

Sorry for the poor quality of several of them....

 

[neosin]

nice... Hope all goes well.. I had to replace an engine if you click on the pic you can see the hatches we put in... turned out very nice and really gives the salon a open feeling closed or opened. Turns out it made the whole top of the salon stronger. Took us 3 months as well to do a complete engine replacement. It seems like they always do lol

Good luck... keep us updated and post more pics!

 

[Boatsb]

I have heard of the parts problems too. Which covington office is doing the job? What will the final cost be (around) when done. A friend of mine in Tennessee needs one rebuilt and has been given numbers from $18-50K.

 

[Tawney1]

I have heard of the parts problems too. Which covington office is doing the job? What will the final cost be (around) when done. A friend of mine in Tennessee needs one rebuilt and has been given numbers from $18-50K.

We have 12-71TIs. Covington in Wilmington (NC) is doing the rebuild. The lead mechanic there has a very good reputation in the region for 12-71 work (he is supposed to be one of the best in the southeast), and the manager there (John) has been good to work with. The parts problems, however, have been a pain and definitely have increased our costs. The boat is at P & B Marine.

The final cost is in for the port engine -- which was a whopping $47,000!! That price includes a new camshaft, which was unexpected, and repairs to the blower, a new alternator and rebuilt starter. It does not include the costs for bulkhead boring, afromosia veneer and repairs to the wall in the VIP stateroom, etc., in order to remove and replace the camshaft. The final cost far exceeded the original estimate, and does NOT include any engine painting, except for the parts installed by Covington! The final cost did include the fabrication of all new lines and hoses. We do not expect the final cost on the starboard engine to be that high.

I cannot see how anyone could get a complete overhaul done for less than $35 to $40K, assuming the use of reliabuilt rebuilt turbos, heads, and all other parts new, including new lines and hoses.

I would love to hear what the final quote is for your friend's overhaul.

Additionally, if anyone would like to know, I will be happy to post complete information as to the final cost of the overhauls, including parts, specs, etc. Just let me know.

Paul

 

[neosin]

I have heard of the parts problems too. Which covington office is doing the job? What will the final cost be (around) when done. A friend of mine in Tennessee needs one rebuilt and has been given numbers from $18-50K.

friend from tenn... i wonder who needs a 12v71 rebuilt

 

[neosin]

We have 12-71TIs. Covington in Wilmington (NC) is doing the rebuild. The lead mechanic there has a very good reputation in the region for 12-71 work (he is supposed to be one of the best in the southeast), and the manager there (John) has been good to work with. The parts problems, however, have been a pain and definitely have increased our costs. The boat is at P & B Marine.

The final cost is in for the port engine -- which was a whopping $47,000!! That price includes a new camshaft, which was unexpected, and repairs to the blower, a new alternator and rebuilt starter. It does not include the costs for bulkhead boring, afromosia veneer and repairs to the wall in the VIP stateroom, etc., in order to remove and replace the camshaft. The final cost far exceeded the original estimate, and does NOT include any engine painting, except for the parts installed by Covington! The final cost did include the fabrication of all new lines and hoses. We do not expect the final cost on the starboard engine to be that high.

I cannot see how anyone could get a complete overhaul done for less than $35 to $40K, assuming the use of reliabuilt rebuilt turbos, heads, and all other parts new, including new lines and hoses.

I would love to hear what the final quote is for your friend's overhaul.

Additionally, if anyone would like to know, I will be happy to post complete information as to the final cost of the overhauls, including parts, specs, etc. Just let me know.

Paul

Take off your turbos, increase the compression a little, ditch the $3,000 after cooler/inter cooler, headers, etc.... Make it a natural and enjoy the savings in a far cheaper rebuild

 

[Boatsb]

His engines are naturals and he has the heads done already. I was told it could be done for about $18K

 

[Roscoe]

I was quoted $21,500 plus core for shop rebuilt 12V71s FOB Louisianna. New 625 hp Series 60 Detroits with gears are about $75,000.

If one sells the 12V71s for used price,depending on their condition and adds in a 30% fuel cost saving plus the ability to operate anywhere in the rpm range for economy, the cost difference is not that great.

I suppose the economics don't work for local boaters or sportfishers but for those who cruise full-time, the series 60 or equivalent common rail engines allows economical long range cruising without sacrificing performance.

 

[captddis]

We have 12-71TIs. Covington in Wilmington (NC) is doing the rebuild. The lead mechanic there has a very good reputation in the region for 12-71 work (he is supposed to be one of the best in the southeast), and the manager there (John) has been good to work with. The parts problems, however, have been a pain and definitely have increased our costs. The boat is at P & B Marine.

The final cost is in for the port engine -- which was a whopping $47,000!! That price includes a new camshaft, which was unexpected, and repairs to the blower, a new alternator and rebuilt starter. It does not include the costs for bulkhead boring, afromosia veneer and repairs to the wall in the VIP stateroom, etc., in order to remove and replace the camshaft. The final cost far exceeded the original estimate, and does NOT include any engine painting, except for the parts installed by Covington! The final cost did include the fabrication of all new lines and hoses. We do not expect the final cost on the starboard engine to be that high.

I cannot see how anyone could get a complete overhaul done for less than $35 to $40K, assuming the use of reliabuilt rebuilt turbos, heads, and all other parts new, including new lines and hoses.

I would love to hear what the final quote is for your friend's overhaul.

Additionally, if anyone would like to know, I will be happy to post complete information as to the final cost of the overhauls, including parts, specs, etc. Just let me know.

Paul

Paul,
The price is about what I expected. While a lot of money it is not out of line. All the 12V71TIs that I have done have been right at the high 5 to 6 figure markfor both. A lot of people like to talk about 20,000 overhauls, but you get what you pay for. If you don't go over everything then you have to deal with all the annoying little problems. You should have trouble free engines for a long time. Dave

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I was quoted $21,500 plus core for shop rebuilt 12V71s FOB Louisianna. New 625 hp Series 60 Detroits with gears are about $75,000.

If one sells the 12V71s for used price,depending on their condition and adds in a 30% fuel cost saving plus the ability to operate anywhere in the rpm range for economy, the cost difference is not that great.

I suppose the economics don't work for local boaters or sportfishers but for those who cruise full-time, the series 60 or equivalent common rail engines allows economical long range cruising without sacrificing performance.

The only problem with that is getting them out of the boat. If you look back, there was a long thread about just this approach before Tawney had his rebuilt. It may make sense in a Convertible, but not in an MY such as his.

 

[Boatsb]

How much different is it for the naturals? My 8v53 seem simple compared to the TIAB on the 71/92 series. I have a single oil line to and from the cooler. 1 Blower, no turbos or other air handling parts. I was told by a buddy at a diesel shop under 10 to rebuild the granted that is using all the old hard parts ( starter, Alternator and manifolds ....) and replacing the hoses with new. Am I missin something as I believed the 1271N would not be too much more other than larger and half again the cylinders.

I'm tempted to get into the detroit rebuilding business if the prices are that high. Got to pay for the fuel somehow.

 

[Brian Degulis]

Hey thanks for the photos I was one of the people that didn't think a man could get under there I have the same boat as you and now I know it's possible.

Sure you could replace the engine with new probably for the same money or even less than the cost of an in place rebuild and there are lots of choices doesn't have to be a series 60. But getting the old out and the new in would require an awfull lot of destruction and rebuilding and I'm sure end up costing a lot more.

I think if you knew up front it would cost say 85k to rebuild it would still be a tough choice. I've often wondered if cutting one side of the hull out would be feasable? Then you would be looking at removing 2 interior bulheads to slide the one out oposite the hull opening.

 

[neosin]

Hey thanks for the photos I was one of the people that didn't think a man could get under there I have the same boat as you and now I know it's possible.

Sure you could replace the engine with new probably for the same money or even less than the cost of an in place rebuild and there are lots of choices doesn't have to be a series 60. But getting the old out and the new in would require an awfull lot of destruction and rebuilding and I'm sure end up costing a lot more.

I think if you knew up front it would cost say 85k to rebuild it would still be a tough choice. I've often wondered if cutting one side of the hull out would be feasable? Then you would be looking at removing 2 interior bulheads to slide the one out oposite the hull opening.

Note the custom hatches in the top of my salon of my 1972 44 TC Engine replacement now only requires opening them hatch Click the (pic) on the boat in the sig below

 

[krush]

I'd go diesel electric


Can you give a rough estimate in parts/labor breakdown and how many hours it took? I'm smaller than that guy and used to standing on my head...

 

[Roscoe]

The only problem with that is getting them out of the boat. If you look back, there was a long thread about just this approach before Tawney had his rebuilt. It may make sense in a Convertible, but not in an MY such as his.

I read the whole thread.Very informative,thanks.

I've looked over many engines and the 14 liter Series 60 appears to fit the specs. The QSM11 is a smaller engine, Deere and Lugger are work boat oriented. Pulling 625hp max out of a 855cu/in Series 60 engine leaves a healthy safety margin rather than squeezing power out of a smaller engine.

To each their own but I can't see spending 100k to rebuild old tech fuel burners with a 6 month warranty when for 200k one can repower with new,fuel efficient engines with a 5 year,unlimited hour warranty. I plan keeping and using the boat for 20 years and to me,it makes sense to repower when the existing engines tire.

If the boat is used occasional weekends and holidays in local waters, a repower may not be logical or cost effective but as a method to make a LRC/MY capable of extended cruising between refuellings while maintaining performance if required,it makes sense to me.

I've owned many diesel engines in my business and paid some big repair bills. The comments in the previous thread made much sense,especially regarding doing it right the first time. I would prefer engines that never wear out but since that isn't going to happen,I'll prepare for a repower/refit that certainly will. The task is not as daunting if one proactively plans for the eventuality.

Thanks to all for the insight. Great threads.

 

[Brian Degulis]

Your #s are way off If you look into replacing just the engine vrs rebuilding the engine in place it would be much closer. The poster spent 47k to rebuild one engine. For under 40 k a new engine of the same HP could be bought of course now you need to factor in the labor to replace. But then you have to used engines to sell which helps to balance the cost.

I was thinking about this after reading the post and I wouldn't rebuild for that money I would replace.

Brian

 

[Roscoe]

Depending on one's choice of repower. I noted a deal for QSM11s at 54k with gear and I also have a ballpark quote for 2 Series 60 625hp with 3 panels and controls for 185k. If we opt for a 58,the QSMs may suffice but not for a 70.

I'm a handy guy and can do much of the work myself or hire help and supervise. Then, have the dealer provide installation and startup as required.

As a general contractor, I'm well aware of the work involved and I'm not really interested in such a large project but I'm also aware that if I want a quality job at a cost effective price, I will need to be hands-on.

Since we plan long-term ownership and utilisation, the probability of facing this decision will occur sooner or later and a proactive plan will ameliorate the decision-making process.

 

[Westfield 11]

This is a bit off topic but here goes: How difficult/expensive would it be to rebuild an 8v71TI or TA to 8v92N status? What would be the horsepower change? Would this be a cost effective approach to simplifying things w/o losing power?

 

[Boss Lady]

My 8v71Ns made 330 HP.

 

[Jackman]

I love seeing posts like this one. Its like a marine mechanics extreme reality show type thing. If I were talented enough I'd love to try something like this...crawl underneath and get to work! Good luck. I hope she cranks over as though she was given a second life!

The only thing I'm missing is a first hand visit to the work site!