Am I going about this correctly?

[gtacri71]

So it looks like State Farm is going to insure this 71 31' Hatteras we are aiming to purchase next week; it was an agreed upon value and liability; binder sent over; no survey required.

I have researched the topic to death; looked at the Hull Truth, and went back and forth over the topic of a survey; I am NO expert by any means; I did purchase a 1974 Egg Harbor that I basically got screwed on and learned the hard way.

I ended up pulling the fuel tanks, after I located a damaged corner of a tank (this boat was previously surveyed with 3 years of my purchase).

I ended up doing so much work on that Egg crawled around every inch of it; replaced the fuel tanks, decking and cabin areas due to soft spots ect.

I went and inspected this 71 Hatteras; spent 3 hours crawling all over it; moister meter, flash lights, tapping hammer ect.; spoke with the marine mechanic that has been servicing boat for 15 years; pulled a fuel sample from tank ect.

Checked cutlass bearings ect.

I have NOT conducted a Sea Trial yet or an official check of all the systems on board. I have looked over some survey reports and feel they have been less in depth than what I checked.

My buddy had a survey done on his 42 Oceans and a couple years later the steering went out and one of his fuel tanks was leaking.

When a surveyors report says' No indication of fuel smells/vapor in bilge at this time; or a device "powers up" but does not guarantee its function; it all seems like a cursory inspection with many disclaimers.

I am sure they have seen a lot; but isn't it more vital that the engines run at full speed without incident; idle well; no leaking ect....

Soft spots and water intrusion are fairly easy to identify.

A lot to contemplate and at the end of the day; you will have some issues no matter what....

 

[RonNP]

Having owned and sold half a dozen boats/yachts I would never, ever buy one without a full survey without my own personally chosen inspector( FYI John Prentice aka Scarlett on this board would be my #1 choice). I would also refuse to buy anything that floats without a sea trial. Too much junk out there for my hard earned $

 

[Pascal]

You re buying a boat, have insurance already secured and you haven’t even done a sea trial yet???

What engines? If gas, have the fuel tanks been replaced? Even if the fuel sample shows ethanol free you can’t be sure ethanol wasn’t used in the last.

Yes surveys aren’t perfect and things can and will pop up but skipping them is a risk few are willing to take. Personally I gen with 40 years of hands on boat ownership and having been involved in a number of purchases as the buyers captain, i d still be reluctant to skip surveys

Very rare to find insurance without a survey, maybe because it s a small boat.

 

[gtacri71]

I only secured a "binder" on the insurance which cost me $35 to ensure I could actually insure the boat; the fuel tank (1- 170 gallon tank) has not been replaced; the same owner has had the boat in MI since 2001 and has had it serviced by the same marina for 15 years.

Current owner states he has always ran Ethanol free fuel in the boat; mechanic that has serviced states no signs of issues with tank. I have received responses on here indicating that it is and issue and the tank is compromised or it is not and you would quickly know if they were.

I am not opposed to a survey, but, the reality is they will not be able to assess the fuel or tank condition any better than I; I DO understand their is more that they can discover, and that is why I am considering NOT moving forward without one.

I don't see any need to ponder the fuel tank any more if it has not been compromised.

You can never be 100% sure, just a very informed decision. I looked at some other boats, namely Egg Harbors, and I get a better feeling pursuing this vintage Hatteras.

 

[gtacri71]

Also, a pending Sea Trial is a condition of purchase.

 

[Pascal]

The sea trial has to be thorough and include real world use. Most sea trials are rushed and don’t take in time, heat build up, etc

Including ….

At least 30 minutes of fast cruise running
Loading the gen with real life loads to make sure it keeps up.
Cold start and hot starts
Running the water pump and testing the tank fill/vent
Multiple Flushes of the heads, pump out etc
Inspection of the shore power cords, checking for heat, and very close inspection on the terminals and plugs
Making sure the AC works underway and after the sea trial. Check amp draw
Test the windlass not just for 2 seconds but by dumping 100’ of rode and retrieving it.
Inspect carefully for water stains.

And much more.

 

[gtacri71]

I did a similar run with my old Egg after rebuilding raw water pumps and tranny coolers; when the temps stayed where they should after a solid cruise working the engines I was confident all was in working order.

Would anyone here just walk away because of the original fiberglass tank; NO issues during 23 years of ownership; engines have just under 600 hours.

Some advice I received was that yes some tanks were an issue some luckily were not depending on the resin used; is that enough to move onto another make; some suggested getting an older Chris Craft that have no issues with fuel tanks.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Tanks were all a problem until 1986. But I would not walk just because they are original tanks. IF no ethanol was ever in them, they will be fine.

 

[gtacri71]

So current owner; past 23 years; never issue ran ethanol free; good friend of his sold him boat at which time he had survey. No tank issues noted. In 2000 I’m not sure how available ethanol free fuel was; BUT, fuel trouble free for 23 years and maybe longer ; virtually impossible to confirm with owner prior to this guy.

 

[Capt Chad]

You're going to have a hard time selling the boat when that time comes. So, keep that in mind as you spend money on the boat. Also keep in mind that ethanol free gasoline isn't guaranteed to us going forward.

 

[ageless]

To answer the question in the title? NO

BUT, we're always here for those "told ya so moments". I've been on the receiving end several times.

 

[gtacri71]

Decided to back out of deal.

1. Questionable the ability to carry viable insurance during ownership; never be able to resell under these conditions.

2. A survey would not be able to diagnose the overall health of the FB fuel tank.

Shame, because the boat really would have worked for us and the current owners were very kind and transparent to deal with.

The search continues.....at some point

 

[brettportzer]

What is different about this than any other boat in terms of resale and insurance?

I re-read a couple of posts but I must be missing the point on that.

 

[gtacri71]

Nothing; why I feel I might need to explore a newer model year; also, I received mixed info, but the cut off year seemed to hover around the mid 70's "for now"; also, the fuel tank is an issue for resale and/or ownership.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Hatteras went to a resin called Glidden Blisterguard, I think in the 80s, which I was told is safe with ethanol, but I don't know if they were even building boats with gas engines by that time.

Aluminum tanks have their own problems- water in gasoline or diesel can corrode the tanks from the inside and cause them to leak. I believe if I had a boat with gas engines, I'd want plastic tanks.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Hatteras went to a resin called Glidden Blisterguard, I think in the 80s, which I was told is safe with ethanol, but I don't know if they were even building boats with gas engines by that time.

Aluminum tanks have their own problems- water in gasoline or diesel can corrode the tanks from the inside and cause them to leak. I believe if I had a boat with gas engines, I'd want plastic tanks.

Mid 1986, the tank resin was changed. Many gas boats were still being produced at that time including the 36C and the 40DC

 

[gtacri71]

So I guess at the end of the day, we made the right decision; the insurance issue came as a surprise since I had my 74 Egg insured through Progressive; I tried and tried to get comfortable with the fiberglass tank since the owner (who was very transparent and good to deal with; owned boat for 20 years without issue) always used ethanol free fuel, it was still weighing on my mind; then the insurability issue presented itself and I was done.

With this new info; it seems like any vintage boat the fuel tanks are going to be a point of contention along with insurability.

Maybe we will become jet ski people...lol

 

[Buccaneer]

The sea trial has to be thorough and include real world use. Most sea trials are rushed and don’t take in time, heat build up, etc

Including ….

At least 30 minutes of fast cruise running
Loading the gen with real life loads to make sure it keeps up.
Cold start and hot starts
Running the water pump and testing the tank fill/vent
Multiple Flushes of the heads, pump out etc
Inspection of the shore power cords, checking for heat, and very close inspection on the terminals and plugs
Making sure the AC works underway and after the sea trial. Check amp draw
Test the windlass not just for 2 seconds but by dumping 100’ of rode and retrieving it.
Inspect carefully for water stains.

And much more.

Hummmm?
Can you be bought?
To do a sea trial inspection with/for me?

St Pete's.