Water or Coolant in the Oil?

[tjshuler]

Detroit Diesel 8V71TI

When boat was launched in early April, oil on dipstick was just oil.

Brought the boat over from storage to the dock about 5 miles and did not notice any particular excess white smoke other than cold start white smoke. Have been away and not started the boat until two weeks ago. Turned on the block heaters a few hours before I started the boat. I believe I checked the oil and noticed nothing unusual. Ran the boat for 10-15 minutes at the dock. One engine came up to temp nicely and no unusual smoke. The other one never got above about 120F and white smoke the whole time. No unusual sweet smell that is usually associated with coolant.

Was going to take the boat out Sunday. Checked the oil and the white smoker definitely has water or coolant in the oil and lots of it. Dipstick fluid level is probably 2-3" higher than full mark for oil.

Have not checked the coolant level but will go down to the boat today and do that. Also getting oil analysis kits.

I am leaning toward failed raw water shaft seal, especially if I determine coolant level is still full.

Your thoughts, gentlemen?

 

[johnjen50]

Sure sounds like raw water if no coolant smell. I had an intercooler spring a leak that seized the engine, but oil never showed presence of water. Engine sat over winter layup and that was that. Actually all the coolers could be suspect I believe.

 

[Captain Ralph]

There is an opening between the engine and raw water pump pocket. I think there is an opening between the block and coolant pump. You would see coolant or raw water leaking. The block will also have a seal to keep water and dirt out.
Your air box drains (if open) should show water if an inter-cooler is leaking.

Lets just hope it is an oil cooler.
It's bad news after that.

 

[Fanfare]

Don't forget the fuel/transmission cooler. Will turn your transmission oil white.

 

[rsmith]

If your losing coolant check the injector tubes. The injectors sit in a copper well surrounded by coolant. After time and heating and cooling cycles the pressed in tube starts to leak into the cylinders. The tubes also do crack.

 

[tjshuler]

Don't forget the fuel/transmission cooler. Will turn your transmission oil white.

I will check the transmission oil.

Also, was at the boat yesterday and collected a sample of oil. Didn't have a proper suction device to remove the oil through 5/16 ID tube I put in the dipstick tube, so I did it the old fashioned way. My face hurts today. No worry about sucking the oil into my mouth. It didn't move up the tube very fast 

When I removed the heat exchanger cap, pressure was released. Not a lot, but some. The boat has not run in two weeks. Gives me hope that the closed coolant system is in tact and it is the raw water circuit that is the culprit.

So, what is the short list of components that the raw water flows through?

I have not been successful in finding a raw water cooling diagram and trying to follow all of the pipes externally is maddening.

Water pump
Oil Cooler
Fuel/Transmission cooler
Main coolant heat exchanger
Intercooler?

 

[Captain Ralph]

I will check the transmission oil.

Also, was at the boat yesterday and collected a sample of oil.

When I removed the heat exchanger cap, pressure was released.

What color was the oil?
Pressure or vacuum? Coolant recovery system used?
How much coolant was in the H/E when you released the cap?

Air box drains are handled in many ways. Yours could be collected in a bottle, checked valved and returned to the sump or blow straight into the engine tray. If you can inspect this line for water, it could easily settle the air cooler concern.

Fuel coolers cool off the fuel on its way to the tank, not the engine. If your Racors are clear, you can eliminate this.
The 8V71s cooled it's oil and clutch different ways. Remote or in-line, in the bottom of the H/E or on the blocks low stb side. You can follow the oil lines from the clutch to find it's cooler.
If you have a engine mounted oil filter(s) bolted on the blocks low stb side (no oil hoses), it should be sitting on it's oil cooler.

Also;
A low compression lung, like a leaking exhaust valve will also cause white smoke.

 

[tjshuler]

An Update...

Finally got a service technician to diagnose the problem. Removed rocker covers, removed injectors, boroscope, evidence of some rust, but no standing water.

Engine won't turn over with breaker bar on front of the crankshaft. No doubt rust is the problem. Filled coolant and pressurized, but the pressure testing device had a small leak so results were inconclusive.

Pulled the cover off the blower and the mechanic said the blower should not look like this. Pristinely clean. Looked up toward the intercoolers and one of them is ruptured.

I have been putting Kroil in the cylinders over the last 2 days, but it is still stuck.

Any suggestions as to what else to do until it unsticks?

 

[Captain Ralph]

Engine won't turn over with breaker bar on front of the crankshaft.

Any suggestions as to what else to do until it unsticks?

Pull the side covers for that visual. This MAY help to witch head to pull, if not both.
Your going to pull the head(s) anyway for new liners, pistons, maybe a few rods and injector tubes.
This is not like a lawnmower engine. The pan is getting dropped for one or more cylinders.
IMO Start planning on an in-frame overhaul.

I don't think your going to get it to turn but if you need to persist to turn the engine;
Put a pipe (as long as you can) on that breaker bar.
You may even need a 3/4" drive with a short, 6 point socket if the starboard 1/2" breaks off. Been here, got the scars when the 1/2" broke.

 

[tjshuler]

Pull the side covers for that visual. This MAY help to witch head to pull, if not both.
Your going to pull the head(s) anyway for new liners, pistons, maybe a few rods and injector tubes.
This is not like a lawnmower engine. The pan is getting dropped for one or more cylinders.
IMO Start planning on an in-frame overhaul.

I don't think your going to get it to turn but if you need to persist to turn the engine;
Put a pipe (as long as you can) on that breaker bar.
You may even need a 3/4" drive with a short, 6 point socket if the starboard 1/2" breaks off. Been here, got the scars when the 1/2" broke.

I am tempted to call you Captain Sunshine for all of the good news, but I fear you are correct.

If I get the engine to turn and put it all back together, as is, and start it, is it just going to chew its self up from the rust?

 

[Captain Ralph]

I am tempted to call you Captain Sunshine for all of the good news, but I fear you are correct.

If I get the engine to turn and put it all back together, as is, and start it, is it just going to chew its self up from the rust?

No, Ive never been accused of inserting sunshine anywhere. Nor called anything that positive.
Just have witnessed issues before.
Digesting water into a diesel lung(s) is never good. I'm not talking rust, just metals under pressure trying to compress water deforms these metals. I fear the damage was done when the poor thing was puking out white smoke.
Blowing out injector tubes, ring blow-by was allowing water into the oil.
Water under pressure before that may have deformed a liner or two and a rod or two bending under the resistance of closing a lung @ 15:1 with any water in it.

Say a prayer for that 71. When you shut if off, that was it.

Your breaker bar may never match the torque, the remaining dry lungs were making trying to keep the crank turning.

Your season is over my friend. `
Bless your 71 for trying.

BTW, a 92 would of blown out that liner and done more damage,, bore scope would of been obvious. Some times that trashes the block. Witnessed that also.

 

[tjshuler]

Injector tubes are the sleeves that the injectors are inserted into?

No luck getting the motor to turn. Had to give it a try, though.

In frame new liners, pistons, rods, injector tubes, crank bearing/seals.

Adjust / repair injectors, have both heads inspected.

Obviously a new intercooler and pressure test and ultrasonic clean the other 3.

While it is apart, anything else to be done?

Any rough ideas how much whiskey money this is going to set me back? (I am sitting down)

Will this in frame rebuild essentially make the engine at zero hours?

Any idea how much the value of the boat will increase after all of this work?

 

[Captain Ralph]

Injector tubes are the sleeves that the injectors are inserted into?

Yes, these liners (tubes) hold the injector tightly and offer cooling from the engines coolant. It is crude but works well. The top and flared end keep water from leaking into the lung and oil side of the head. When under abusive pressures, they will deform and leek lung compression pressures into the engine and leak coolant into the engine.

 

[Captain Ralph]

While it is apart, anything else to be done?

New thermostats, fuel tubes, inspect turbos and heat exchanger.
The blower rotors got wet with raw water, if they have been sitting, some serious cleaning up or exchange.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Any rough ideas how much whiskey money this is going to set me back? (I am sitting down)

Will this in frame rebuild essentially make the engine at zero hours?

Any idea how much the value of the boat will increase after all of this work?

If the block and crank are re-usable;
Rough guess 3 to 4$K per lung. Plus other hang on equipment; Blowers, injectors, turbos, starter.

IMO, All hours on the crank and block are listed AND time since in-frame overhaul.
IE; 5000 hours total, 500 hours since in-frame overhaul.

IMO, rebuilding the engines are normal maintenance. Like replacing a bad switch or light bulb.

IMO, it is good to refer to low hours when selling or shopping. I don't see a great value increase.


There are some HOF owners who just had their engines rebuilt. Search for their threads and find some more details.