Electrical issue becoming a docking problem

[Captain Ralph]

This is not about bonding. In order to trip the shore system, you are dealing with earth ground. Once an isolation transformer is installed, you are isolated from earth ground. The boat ground is not tied to earth/dock ground. The internal ground faults on the boat only trip relative to ground to the transformer which is the source; the only source.

Again, I never meant to discuss ships bonding and still not. Not sure why you are bringing it up, again.

Your term source is confusing. May I say it a different way?
Your transformer is the only location or only source of all ship-side electrical connects.

O K, So I understand your boat does not make a green wire connect to the dock service pole.
I also understand you believe all boats are wired this same way and there are no other options for other existing and new transformer installations.

 

[madhatter1]

We go to Twin Dolphin marina Bradenton FL. They have a new transient dock that many boats end up tripping these new GFI breakers. They end up moving them to other older docks where they power up just fine.

Our 1982 46 with factory isolation transformer (120 or 240v) has no issues on the new dock. So isolation transformers are a big plus and eliminate most problems. I would think that poor wiring on a Hatteras would be from wiring after it left the factory and can be corrected. As they should be.

But nuisance trips from appliances that have neutral and ground bonded internally cannot easily be corrected and I don’t think they create a dangerous condition. The real danger is when the ground becomes a current carrying conductor due to poor wiring. An isolation transformer if properly installed and wired completely isolates the boat wiring from shore wiring other than cord, plug, and conductors to the breaker.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Again, I never meant to discuss ships bonding and still not. Not sure why you are bringing it up, again.

Your term source is confusing. May I say it a different way?
Your transformer is the only location or only source of all ship-side electrical connects.

O K, So I understand your boat does not make a green wire connect to the dock service pole.
I also understand you believe all boats are wired this same way and there are no other options for other existing and new transformer installations.

I have no idea if ALL boats are wired that way. That's how Hatteras did it. And this is a Hatteras forum.

 

[Hatteras58]

Ralph, my Outback inverter is M/N VFX3232m. I should have the operator’/installation manual but haven’t yet located it.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Ralph, my Outback inverter is M/N VFX3232m. I should have the operator’/installation manual but haven’t yet located it.

OutBack stopped making the 32V inverters a couple of years ago.
Seems their FX, VFX and M series still use some of the same manuals.
Yours is a 3200 Watt unit using 32Vdc battery bank(s).
I have download a few manuals tonight. In quickly looking thru the install manual, there is a hard jumper that should be installed (factory config) that enables auto switching when in operation or not.
Neutral to ground open when not inverting, Closed when inverting.

You mention switching your by-pass rotary switch and hearing some noise.
I recommend leaving the unit off while on the dock and finding a proper tech to check this out.

If needed, PM me with an e-mail address and I'll send these PDF manuals to you for your records and your tech.

If your near or passing thru Jax FL, I have good techs around me that could help.

,rc

 

[metama]

I can confirm that outback inverters (and many others) will trip the new dock GFI's. The ms timing on the GFIS are quicker than the Sensor on the outback and pop.

 

[Captain Ralph]

I can confirm that outback inverters (and many others) will trip the new dock GFI's. The ms timing on the GFIS are quicker than the Sensor on the outback and pop.

I understand your comment and agree.
So, the trick may be ensuring the inverter is by-passed (or off?) when plugging into shore power.

 

[Pascal]

I was under the impression that a marine inverter only bonds N to G when in inverter mode. Not off, not in charger mode

Is it possible than when switching from gen to shore, the unit goes in inverter mode and doesn’t release the bonding fast enough? If so, turn it off to prevent it from inverting when transferring loads

 

[drburke]

I don't want to complicate this discussion which contains some very good points.

Hatteras is famous for having well designed electrical systems, and my vessel has a boost-capable isolation transformer installed new at the factory.

All of my wiring is original and untouched.

When I had a small leakage current I obliged the Harbormaster and powered everything down, then opened all breakers, and still some minute draw was detected.

It turned out that Hatteras had powered a single lone outlet in the galley *completely around the master breaker* which stayed live. I don't know if this was a factory mistake or meant to service a crisper.

My message is to be open to all possibilities. Even if our boats are very well designed, sometimes the factory floor does not get the message.

DAN

 

[Pascal]

You are correct except for the earlier boats. Up to the mid / Late 70s the electrical systems were pretty crude

But the biggest issue is the decades of butchering and creative wiring incl often poorly installed inverters.

 

[Captain Ralph]

I have no idea if ALL boats are wired that way. That's how Hatteras did it. And this is a Hatteras forum.

Sir, With all respect
As I stated in an earlier post, your boat may be wired with out a ground coming on board.

Please note wires 852*8GN, 751* and 951* pas directly from the dock service connect to the onboard Ground Buss and Cabinet Ground. These 8 gauge wires are un-cut and pass directly to the buss bar.
These prints did include the factory isolation transformer.


This is from the prints from one of the Hatts we currently work on. It is a common print set on the rest of the Hatts we used to work on (HATDL310H889 to HATHA410C909).
.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Sounds like we need to investigate this situation much deeper with help from a competent electrician. What we found was that if the Outback inverter is ON when you turn on the power at the pedestal, the dock power trips immediately.

Any update? Electrician on board yet?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

The ground only goes to the shield within the transformer. I don't see that transformer on those diagrams.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Interesting, This Hatteras schematic states "GN not used".

 

[Captain Ralph]

The ground only goes to the shield within the transformer. I don't see that transformer on those diagrams.

Interesting, Never been detailed as a fibber before on this high class forum. Usually what I say is good enough for most people.

 

[Captain Ralph]

The ground only goes to the shield within the transformer. I don't see that transformer on those diagrams.

O K, I've showed you mine, Where is your prints showing a ground connect?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Open the transformer and take a look. Have you ever pulled the cover?

 

[Captain Ralph]

Open the transformer and take a look. Have you ever pulled the cover?

Let me get this correct, The factory prints are wrong on this boat and many others?
Have you any factory prints? Have you pulled the cover off of your factory transformer?

I made a living working on boats. Peoples lives are still counting on my work.

Your chest beating, conversations, poor manners as well as being incorrect, is tiring.

Good day

 

[SKYCHENEY]

SO you haven't had the cover off of the transformer?

 

[rsmith]

Let me get this correct, The factory prints are wrong on this boat and many others?
Have you any factory prints? Have you pulled the cover off of your factory transformer?

I made a living working on boats. Peoples lives are still counting on my work.

Your chest beating, conversations, poor manners as well as being incorrect, is tiring.

Good day

Better make sure your insurance is paid up.