Looking for Hatteras specific electrical ideas

[riverrandy]

New to me 1975 Hatteras 64' MY. Very little has been changed from delivery (weird I know). Having fun learning how to work all the vintage systems, but dang if they are solid as the bottom! One issue I cannot get my head around though on AC side.

When I turn on the main refrigerator in the kitchen, it triggers a fault, throws that fault breaker, and the 4 mains coming in. I have to turn off the 'fridge breaker, turn the selector switch to other than #1 shore, and turn on the four main breakers and the fault breaker. Once they are on, then I can turn the selector back to #1 shore and all is good.

Thinking the 'fridge was old, and the compressor or something was throwing a fault, I had an appliance guy come aboard to check it out. We ran an undersized 100' extension cord to a land GFCI outlet, and plugged in the 'fridge. All systems on the refrigerator checked out, and he saw no fault or issue. he also said if I got rid of the fridge to call him, those things last forever...

Bottom Line, the fridge has run for days plugged into a too small extension cord. and cools like a champ. I plug it back into the boat, and POP goes the fault, and main breakers!

Any ideas out there, I am at wits end on this. Could the compressor draw cause my fault breaker to trip if it has become weak with age?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Red Hatt]

New to me 1975 Hatteras 64' MY. Very little has been changed from delivery (weird I know). Having fun learning how to work all the vintage systems, but dang if they are solid as the bottom! One issue I cannot get my head around though on AC side.

When I turn on the main refrigerator in the kitchen, it triggers a fault, throws that fault breaker, and the 4 mains coming in. I have to turn off the 'fridge breaker, turn the selector switch to other than #1 shore, and turn on the four main breakers and the fault breaker. Once they are on, then I can turn the selector back to #1 shore and all is good.

Thinking the 'fridge was old, and the compressor or something was throwing a fault, I had an appliance guy come aboard to check it out. We ran an undersized 100' extension cord to a land GFCI outlet, and plugged in the 'fridge. All systems on the refrigerator checked out, and he saw no fault or issue. he also said if I got rid of the fridge to call him, those things last forever...

Bottom Line, the fridge has run for days plugged into a too small extension cord. and cools like a champ. I plug it back into the boat, and POP goes the fault, and main breakers!

Any ideas out there, I am at wits end on this. Could the compressor draw cause my fault breaker to trip if it has become weak with age?

Thanks in advance.

Sounds like a bad breaker

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Those white GFI breakers do go bad. Most people just bypass them. What else is on that Ships Service? You many not even need a GFI on it.

I have bypassed several of those. Once you disable the white breaker by removing the wire that trips it, then you can add GFIC plugs where needed and all is well.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

1975 to about 1979 Hatteras used that system where they had a GFI for each ships service main. In the 80's they quit that and just put GFI breakers on the lights & plugs breakers within each service panel. I think the compressors and motors were tripping too many under the previous setup and they changed the way they set up the panels.

 

[riverrandy]

That makes sense to me. Has any one else bypassed this breaker?


(if you take the picture sideways, it works)

 

[Pascal]

Sound like a GFI issue to me. You can eliminate the breaker by plugging something like a couple of blow dryers in the fridge outlet and see if it holds

 

[Boatsb]

If the refrigerator is grounded as it should be, plugging blow driers in will not be a good test. Look for ground leakage before writing off the gfci.

Add a gfci to the extension cord. Use another gfci outlet. Dont use blow driers.

If your not familiar with electrical systems hire a professional. It beets hurting someone or burning the boat up.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Like I said, these are known to go bad/get weak. Open the panel and cut the control wire coming from that breaker. Your main will then hold and all you need to do is put individual GFI plugs in where needed. I have done this on a couple of the ships services on a 1978 60C.

 

[riverrandy]

Like I said, these are known to go bad/get weak. Open the panel and cut the control wire coming from that breaker. Your main will then hold and all you need to do is put individual GFI plugs in where needed. I have done this on a couple of the ships services on a 1978 60C.

All "wet location" outlets are GFCI already. All three heads, and the kitchen sink. Also two in the ER and one on bridge. What else needs it?

I had real trouble accessing the breakers. Cabinet has shifted slightly and cover is PIA to open. which wire is the control wire to mains?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Many surveyors will write up a Hatteras for not having GFI's on the plugs not knowing that they are protected at the main panel so I'm not surprised someone already added them. You should be covered then.

I can't tell you what wire without looking at it. I remember it being a very small gauge white wire. Open it up and get a picture of it.

If you call Steve McPherson, he could tell you. I'd have to look at it or open up that panel on the 60C that I did before I could tell you for sure.

 

[riverrandy]

Where do I find Steve McPherson's contact info? Is he at Sams?

 

[Pete]

Do you have the same problem at multiple marinas? Are you able to plug into shore power without the problem at some locations?

On isolation transformer boats, the ground for the secondary (the electric power provided on the boat) is grounded by the floatation water. The pedestals on the dock are grounded to the earth back at the distribution panel for the dock. When all is fine, plugged into the dock power receptacle, you are on a different grounding/reference system.

Just a check to verify the problem is with your boat and not stray electric in the water.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Do you have the same problem at multiple marinas? Are you able to plug into shore power without the problem at some locations?

On isolation transformer boats, the ground for the secondary (the electric power provided on the boat) is grounded by the floatation water. The pedestals on the dock are grounded to the earth back at the distribution panel for the dock. When all is fine, plugged into the dock power receptacle, you are on a different grounding/reference system.

Just a check to verify the problem is with your boat and not stray electric in the water.

Pete,
That boat has isolation transformers. The issue is at that breaker. Its very common with that setup.

Randy,
Yes, call Steve at Sams.

 

[riverrandy]

Thanks for the help.

 

[Pete]

Pete,
That boat has isolation transformers. The issue is at that breaker. Its very common with that setup.

Randy,
Yes, call Steve at Sams.

Sky, the ground from the dock, the earth ground, terminates at the stainless plate that is the mounting plate for the shore power connectors on the boat. There is no other connection to the boat associated with the earth ground. Thus all ground reference on the boat are to the floatation water. There can only be one common ground reference on the boat for safety reasons.

This is the case on the few boats I have assisted with and my 48 LRC, 1976 vintage. Not saying Hatteras did not wire the ground system different on other boats, just that to my knowledge back in the 70's and 80's this is what I have seen. Always willing to learn.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Pete,
If it was stray electric, I think it would trip all of the ships service GFI's not just that one.

 

[kingsley_oasis]

Hatteras factory electrical drawings for my boat and the actual wiring have all grounds connected from shore power all way to secondary side of transformer. From my understanding transformers on my boat are actually called polarizing transformers.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Hatteras factory electrical drawings for my boat and the actual wiring have all grounds connected from shore power all way to secondary side of transformer. From my understanding transformers on my boat are actually called polarizing transformers.

Polarizing transformers are much smaller than isolation transformers and from what I have seen, were only used on the smaller models by Hatteras (under 48'). If you have a 61, you have isolation transformers.

 

[Pete]

Polarizing transformers are much smaller than isolation transformers and from what I have seen, were only used on the smaller models by Hatteras (under 48'). If you have a 61, you have isolation transformers.

Suggestion on how to get the definitive answer on this item. Disconnect all attachments on the boat from shore, except the lines, including electric cables, telephone, cable TV, water, etc. Need the boat the same as if on a mooring, except for the dock lines. Now take a multimeter on the low ohm scale and touch one end to any ground on a convenience outlet and the other probe to the stainless plate where the shore power inlets are mounted on the boat. An isolation transformer will show no continuity.

 

[Pete]

Pete,
If it was stray electric, I think it would trip all of the ships service GFI's not just that one.

Sky,

If I understand the core problem, the galley refrigerator in the circuit is the element that results in the GFI trip, thus that differentiates the particular tripping GFI.

Riverrandy,

A couple of suggestions that you may have or not tried:

1) Switch the shore power inlet on the boat and get the refrigerator on that new inlet using the selection switches on the main AC panel. Does the refrigerator cause the same symptom on the new feed path?

2) Get some help with this unless you are absolutely comfortable with your electric skills. Basically plug the refrigerator in without connecting the green wire ground. The person doing this should have the skill to decide how, so I will not elaborate.

Post your results.