Shopping, then Cruising Chicago to South Florida

[Boatsb]

Genmar owned both for many years.

They summed down the hatt motoryachts during that time.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Sky - I would like to take issue, a little, with your last. As you know, I own a 74 Hatteras and now also a 56 Ocean. The Ocean is a painted hull so I am in agreement with you there. Although I have only owned the Ocean for about one month, I can say that it fits the bill for my intended use. Would I want to use it to make a 200 mile Canyon trip everyday, probably not. Does it have its shortcomings like limited access to certain portions of the hull, no parallel switches, no internal strainers for the engines, you bet. But in fairness, it also is devoid of the Hatteras smell, has a beautiful interior, updated head and water pump systems and the like. I also like the 27 knot cruise at 60 GPH. So, in a 15 foot sea, would I rather have a Hatteras - for sure. But, to go fishing for blues and strippers in Long Island Sound and avoiding going out in anything over 3 feet, the Ocean is BETTER for me than an older, slower, heavier, thirsty Hatteras. That's one reason why I sold my 42 Hatteras Open to but the Ocean. I know it is all a matter of personal preference byt for my needs, it was the right choice.

But your Ocean is not U G L Y.

As far as smell, that can be corrected with dripless shafts and cleaning. The speed can also be increased with a repower. I would rather waste my money on a repower of an old Hatteras than buy a poorly constructed, lesser quality, newer boat for the same money. And I am seriously considering doing just that in the next couple of years.

 

[JLR]

Funny thing. When looking at boats, I looked at the 60 Viking CPMY. The Admiral said no way -- ugly.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Funny thing. When looking at boats, I looked at the 60 Viking CPMY. The Admiral said no way -- ugly.

Exactly. You can't own an ugly boat. There are so many options out there. Why settle for an ugly boat?

 

[pizzazsdaddy]

Over the years I've tried to be polite and thoughtful here, but I need to take the gloves off in this case. First of all, I never tried to compare a 57 Carver to a 53 Hatteras. Period. What I am comparing is the relative cost of owning a "classic" VS an acceptable modern boat BUILT IN THIS CENTURY! Having actually experienced 2 months aboard one, I found the Carver 57 exceeded every expectation in ride, handling, comfort, quality details and performance. (for a modern design boat). And without stabilizers.

Personally, I hate the modern 'pilothouse' designs. In my humble opinion, the old Hatteras 53 is a timeless thing of beauty. It's the quintessential American Motor Yacht. If I could afford to OWN a classic 53 maintained to my standards, I would! I never liked the 53 ED model. No walk around access. No aft deck. Poor visibility from the lower helm. And a miserable ladder to climb up to the bridge deck. Plus, the 53 Classic walk around deckhouse design helped create a slightly lower center of gravity, which delivered a better ride and stability compared to the ED model. I've been doing this for 50 years. I've experienced both models. The 53 Classic wins.

Gel Coat VS Paint? That's a toss up. It all depends on how diligent you are regarding cosmetic maintenance. Most owners aren't. In my opinion, any boat finish should be treated like a fine car and waxed every 90 days. There is a 63 Hatteras Pilothouse in our marina paint barn right now. When finished, the owner is looking at a $70,000 paint bill...(and that's an excellent price these days). To the guy who suggested adding only $200,000 to update a marginal 53...I want some of what you're smoking! I think you can get engines and a generator rebuilt, plus a real nice paint job for about $200,000 these days. How much extra will you need to update outdated electrical systems, old plumbing, old appliances, old A/C systems, and then add new soft goods inside? OOPS...did I leave out modern electronics, leaky window frames and the subsequent damage to interior woodwork that needs repairing? Not to mention the hassle of doing it?

During my trip up north, I was expecting a treasure trove of beautifully maintained boats in the Great Lakes and was somewhat disappointed. I wish I had the time to visit every harbor and marina. I'm sure there were lots of beauties up there that I missed. In 45 days and 2600 miles I only encountered 2 older Hatteras Motor Yachts that truly made my heart flutter. A 53 Classic in Port Huron, Michigan named ADVENTURESS. And a 58 LRC that we encountered at Coinjock Marina in North Carolina named KNUCKLEDHEAD. WOW...EE...WOW WOW!

Both were in outstanding condition and a credit to their ownership. Both boats were so nice, they brought tears to my eyes. Shame on the rest of you for owning something as beautiful as a classic Hatteras and NOT giving them the level of love they deserve! Of all the boats I did encounter along the trip, only about 5% appeared to be maintained at what I consider a high standard.

Look...I'm a huge Hatteras fan. A pristine modern anything VS a truly pristine classic Hatteras? I take the Hatteras all day every day. But comparing the modern anything to the "average" Hatteras? The modern anything will provide you with twice the enjoyment, and half the ownership cost over an older boat where SOMETHING is about ready to break every time you take her out! I think a nice clean Carver 57 was an excellent compromise for the same amount spent. US Built. Factory service reps that are helpful and courteous. And the people at Cummins were equally first rate too. The owner of this boat is quite happy.

When I started this particular journey, the goal was to buy the most pristine traditional Motor Yacht available regardless of price (within reason). When we couldn't find anything available that was pristine enough, we had no choice but to choose option B...a late model modern boat with a fresh water history. When some of you squawk about and old Hatteras only being worth whatever...I CRINGE! It all depends on how nice it is! Every boat is a money pit. A rough anything will EAT YOU ALIVE!

 

[SKYCHENEY]

PD,
You and I have had this debate before. It seems that you tend to pay top dollar for everything on your boats and I do everything myself at a fraction of the price. My work is of equal or better quality than that of those you pay for top notch work. My point is that my estimates of costs are much less than yours based on what I can do for my money. I don't doubt your figures and I know this is the main reason that most of these old boats continue to decline and are not maintained much less updated. What amazes me is how well the old Hatts hold up despite the lack of care.

To each his own, I guess, but I would never own an ugly Carver like that. The old Carver 36 that Jack Hargrave designed was one of the last ones they made that had good lines.

 

[Boatsb]

Sky,


Remember where it's coming from.

If you cant find a Ferrari enzo at the right price the kia will be good enough. Even if it's not the same it's a better deal if you follow the thought process. And no one will care if it's not the same look. It's new and lower maintenance....

 

[tom5518]

The old Carver 36 that Jack Hargrave designed was one of the last ones they made that had good lines.

I never knew Jack Hargrave designed a Carver. Which one was it?

 

[JLR]

I know the Knucklehead you saw in Coinjock quite well. He often docks at our YC in the summer. It is owned by a really nice fellow who does almost all of the work himself.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I never knew Jack Hargrave designed a Carver. Which one was it?

This one

 

[pizzazsdaddy]

Point well taken SKY. I admire your abilities to do most things yourself. Not everyone has that talent. I enjoy doing my own detailing and daily maintenance. I'm still pretty good with a varnish brush, but even the major waxing every 90 days has become too much. Mechanical or Electrical? I'm totally lost, but have been blessed with good people in my area who do a great job in spite of the retail price. For those who can't do it themselves, I'm just trying to be a reliable advisor to the costs they might face.
As for the owner of the 58 LRC KNUCKLEHEAD...KUDOS to him too. That boat is so nice you can't help but admire it.

 

[johnjen50]

Paul,
Did you get the tour of Knucklehead? If not you missed out. That boat spends a week in Wickford RI where I am every summer. Last summer I took a walk over and chatted with the owner. After telling him how great the boat looked, he told me it took him 13 years to get her there! He then asked if I wanted to see the ER. Let me tell you, that ER rivals any ER on ANY new boat today. Everything was Awlgriped, even the engines. To say it was clean was the understatement of the century!. This boat is pristine, from the woodwork in the salon, to the hoses in the ER. The boat was painted summer before last, so is still enjoying an amazing shine, and the owner is meticulous in caring for it as he and his wife live on it for a good part of the year cruising around. If this boat were ever to come up for sale, it would command a very high price, and be worth every penny.

 

[rourkeh]

I have seen this discussion many times before. The decision to purchase the Carver was the right one for the individual involved. Not everyone out there wants an older classic style motor yacht with all the inherent problems and continuous repairs.
I am a lover of the classic Hatteras motor yachts but in my search over the last year for a new boat I have encountered the dilemma similar to the original poster. I need more space, a good ride, and solid build quality, but I like a modern interior and the latest systems and equipment. If I buy an older Hatteras for a reasonable price and update all the items on my must have list my budget is out of control. Some of the older Hatteras motor yachts I have looked at that have had a complete refit are beautiful but they rightly command a big price reflecting the HUGE amount of money spent on the refit. Every beautiful redone Hatteras that has been discussed on here over the last couple of years has been shot down as too expensive and "will never sell for that" yet brings the asking price.
There seems to be a lot of old Hatteras owners who have no idea what it costs to do a complete refit, in a yard, start to finish. I was in the marine industry for a lot of years and have done numerous refits and have real world hands on experience with both the time and cost involved, and the cost, and time to do a complete refit on an older 63' motor yacht like I require is HUGE. Which leads to the problem with the end result, which is owning a 30 -40 year old new boat for much more than I could recover 10 years down the road. It makes a 10 year old, ugly modern boat a lot more attractive to a whole lot of buyers.

 

[luckydave215]

I love my old Hatt and lavish her with attention, but I always keep in mind it's not the boat, it's the boating that counts.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Which leads to the problem with the end result, which is owning a 30 -40 year old new boat for much more than I could recover 10 years down the road. It makes a 10 year old, ugly modern boat a lot more attractive to a whole lot of buyers.

You'll lose more money on any 10YO boat than you will on the 30-40YO Hatteras. The depreciation alone will cost you more than the repairs.

 

[pizzazsdaddy]

Well...yes and no. A totally restored 40 year old boat and a brand new boat will depreciate by the same percentage of investment annually. I posted a whole thread on depreciation a few years ago. A brand new $3 million dollar boat today will be worth about $2.3 million next year.

 

[Boatsb]

only if you restored it.

Purchasing a mint old boat comes with a lower depreciation than a new boat.

 

[Finalee]

I love my old Hatt and lavish her with attention, but I always keep in mind it's not the boat, it's the boating that counts.

Amen bruda!