Repowered Hats leaning

[Tim Powell]

As most of you know some hats will take a leap right or left that are reapowered. When they reach about 25 to 28 knots they fall over.

Especially the series one dezined by Hargrave. Owners have shaved the keel,added more trim tab and so forth. HERE IS THE REST OF THE STORY

There is a 1986 in my mariner that has been hotroded it has 692 in it the transmission gears changed bigger injectors and 5 bladed props. Fore about 5 years no body new how fast it would run every one was scared of it

It was a killer it would throw you off the bridge without any warning it would take a big turn right or left never new which way. As most of you know i live in North Carolina there are a lot of builders here

as well as some retired Hattteras engineers. We set out to solve the problem with a bunch of idears.

Finally found out this weekend a one inch rope solved the problem! With the help of a retired Hat engineer. We tied a rope under the bow from the second set of cleats side to side. We all looked at each other

when he said lets go boys lets see what she will do. For the first time sence modifications it was run wide open to the tune of 30 knots. I saw the gps the little rascal was stroking. It never darted not once. Brought it back

and put it on the railway and screwed two fiberglass strips 1inch x 1inch x 8 foot just above the first rake. Took the ropes off.Then took it for a ride holding on again never darted.

Mistery solved the hull was not dezined to excede 22 knots. Above that it creates a suction and one side or the other will brake suction and it will dart to the suction side. All that money spent on cutting down hulls and sutch wasted.

 

[Top Hatt Craig]

That's interesting, check out this now comical Hatteras Promotional video. At 5-6 seconds in look how the divers bubbles are trapped by a seemingly concave area in the hull. That can't be good can it? I remember reading the letters section in a boat magazine years ago, some guy had listed all the things he had done to his flat-bottom V-drive to get more speed, disappointed he wrote looking for suggestions. They said his boat likely sits on a trailer when not in use and that his boat was prone to "trailer sag" sometimes seen in hot climates. They explained how to use a six foot straight-edge to see if his flat bottom had become slightly concave. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3JO4kyUsnRM

 

[Cricket]

It's been out there for a long time that it's a suction issue that leans the boats over to 1 side above certain speed. Have scene different fixes such a blocks and various strake shapes as a remedy. A rope under the bottom aft cleat to aft cleat will push a boat over the hump that won't plane too. Just curious, I don't remember any 1986 Hatts having having strakes??? Would love to see a photo of what they did.

 

[Mmorrow]

I am going to repower a 1980 50C I think a series two.

I'm looking at about 850hp and this will push the boat over 30kts.
Sounds as if the boat would not be stable at that speed, the HP increase
wouldn't make much sense.That being said if a simple fix such as adding
strakes to the hull would solve the problem...sure would like the extra performance.

Sure could use some more information as to how long, how many,
and where the strakes were installed.

Thanks
Mark Morrow

 

[saltshaker]

I am going to repower a 1980 50C I think a series two.

I'm looking at about 850hp and this will push the boat over 30kts.
Sounds as if the boat would not be stable at that speed, the HP increase
wouldn't make much sense.That being said if a simple fix such as adding
strakes to the hull would solve the problem...sure would like the extra performance.

Sure could use some more information as to how long, how many,
and where the strakes were installed.

Thanks
Mark Morrow

The 50C II shouldn't have an issue with keep walking

 

[Tim Powell]

It's been out there for a long time that it's a suction issue that leans the boats over to 1 side above certain speed. Have scene different fixes such a blocks and various strake shapes as a remedy. A rope under the bottom aft cleat to aft cleat will push a boat over the hump that won't plane too. Just curious, I don't remember any 1986 Hatts having having strakes??? Would love to see a photo of what they did.

NOT THE AFT CLEAT... The rope was placed from the bow the the next set of cleats back. The 36 had bow cleats two both right and left and another set just aft of them both right and left ( where the rope was placed) not the stern. It was a 1.5 inch rope pulled tight. With the rope it did not lean take the rope off and it leaned. I can not explain where the sticks were placed but we were given a diagram of where to put them. With the boat sitting they will not show under the h2o line.
the sticks were not a factory installed item. They are not necessary with slow speeds.
Sorry Cricket if i did not explain myself. FYI there have been a bunch of 45c that have had the problem of leaning. If you look at Goodgrief http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...r-Sport-2792997/NJ/United-States#.Wa2VcZ3R82w
It is a 46 but it was a hp the hull and keel was altered on all hp.

 

[Tim Powell]

The 50C II shouldn't have an issue with keep walking

It should not Jack but i watched this one be fixed right before my eyes in the mariner i am in. It was fixed the same way i have discribed
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...69/Morehead-City/NC/United-States#.Wa2YbZ3R82 ...

 

[Tim Powell]

I am going to repower a 1980 50C I think a series two.

I'm looking at about 850hp and this will push the boat over 30kts.
Sounds as if the boat would not be stable at that speed, the HP increase
wouldn't make much sense.That being said if a simple fix such as adding
strakes to the hull would solve the problem...sure would like the extra performance.

Sure could use some more information as to how long, how many,
and where the strakes were installed.

Thanks
Mark Morrow

I can only tell you what i have seen and heard. If you have a problem let me know and i will be glad to tell the retired engineer from Hatteras to call.
Or you can call C.D. Piner at Hatteras service tell him your problem he will guide you. He will not help you as Hatteras sees it as a Libelity. They will not tell you where to put the rakes.
Tell CD you need TOBACCOW STICK HELP. To answer your question the rakes are 6 foot long 1.5 x1.5 inches..

DO NOT use starboard use pultruded fiberglas striped. CD WILL HELP YOU WITH THAT.
WHat you repowering with..???
Tim

fYI HERE ON THIS WEB SITE There is a thread about a knock out 45 with full tower in florida. Seems it was yellow and a looker. The owner was selling it because of the problem we are discussing.
I understood he saved the keel from advice from a mariner. Also put larger trim tabs on. Nothing helped he was fed up. Some of the other guys may remember this and locate the threat. I do not remember the engines used but it would move along till it fell over.

 

[Mmorrow]

Tim,

Thanks for the info.

I'll get in touch with your man at Hatteras about as we northern floridians call
baca sticks. I learned what work was all about as a kid with those things.

Caterpillar 12.9 engines are under consideration
What are your thoughts.

"Hattenuff" Beautiful boat and 32 KNTs

Thanks Again
Mark

 

[hunshatt]

Is this a "fix" that would benifit shorter hatts? my 34 is gas and is about a 20knt cruise , 24knt WOT...

 

[Tim Powell]

Is this a "fix" that would benifit shorter hatts? my 34 is gas and is about a 20knt cruise , 24knt WOT...

If the boat is not making uncontrollable hard turns at high speeds you do not have to worry. Your boat was made to run about that fast but if you push it somewhere in the 28 knot range watch out.
I am by far no expert but i have heard the magic number is 26 knots. Of course diffrent speeds for diffrent boats.

 

[Avenger]

Is this a "fix" that would benifit shorter hatts? my 34 is gas and is about a 20knt cruise , 24knt WOT...

What Tim said. If you're experiencing problems at those speeds something else is wrong.

 

[Cricket]

Mmorrow, after going through the re-power process a few times I would install the engines and then add any modifications after the boat is run at the new speeds.
It might not need anything.
There will be a lot more pressure on the steering gear so make sure all of the components are in perfect shape, including the rudder shelf.
Don't think there's a lot of CAT 12.9's out there but the feedback so far has been very good that I have heard.
If I loose my mind, again, and do another re-power it will probably be C18's. My worry is Cat's long term commitment in staying with reselling the Iveco engines, like the 12.9 etc, and then parts availability...
Cat was making good deals on 12.9 last year around this time, anyone know if that's still going on?

 

[Tim Powell]

What Tim said. If you're experiencing problems at those speeds something else is wrong.

THE BOAT IN QUESTION also had another issue. During construction there were issues. The boat had some small v's installed just in front of the tabs.(which were ground out) The boat as i understand was one of the first to have the 12 DD installed.It did not want to plane. I do not know the complete story but they were removed during or after the re power.

 

[Cricket]

NOT THE AFT CLEAT... The rope was placed from the bow the the next set of cleats back. The 36 had bow cleats two both right and left and another set just aft of them both right and left ( where the rope was placed) not the stern. It was a 1.5 inch rope pulled tight. With the rope it did not lean take the rope off and it leaned. I can not explain where the sticks were placed but we were given a diagram of where to put them. With the boat sitting they will not show under the h2o line.
the sticks were not a factory installed item. They are not necessary with slow speeds.
Sorry Cricket if i did not explain myself. FYI there have been a bunch of 45c that have had the problem of leaning. If you look at Goodgrief http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...r-Sport-2792997/NJ/United-States#.Wa2VcZ3R82w
It is a 46 but it was a hp the hull and keel was altered on all hp.

Very familiar with Good Grief as we've spent the last few winters hauled out in the same yard, can't be a better redo on a Hatteras.
I've watched several different boats tested with a rope under the transom to see if it would help them plane easier, wasn't referring to a Hatteras in particular. If I remember correctly the boats had a hook in the bottom near the transom that made them run like crap, on 1 of them they ground it out, took 2 guys 2 weeks, and their issue was resolved.

 

[Tim Powell]

Mmorrow, after going through the re-power process a few times I would install the engines and then add any modifications after the boat is run at the new speeds.
It might not need anything.
There will be a lot more pressure on the steering gear so make sure all of the components are in perfect shape, including the rudder shelf.
Don't think there's a lot of CAT 12.9's out there but the feedback so far has been very good that I have heard.
If I loose my mind, again, and do another re-power it will probably be C18's. My worry is Cat's long term commitment in staying with reselling the Iveco engines, like the 12.9 etc, and then parts availability...
Cat was making good deals on 12.9 last year around this time, anyone know if that's still going on?

You are correct Cricket the deals were flying especially from Gregory Pool they purchased from cat a bunch of them and were passing along the savings. I talked to Steve at cat in Wanchese NC. The deals were good but by the time you added all the goodies
wiring harness / troling valve/ on and on. The price got over my expectations. I do not remember the $ amount but it was approaching or passing 200,000 each. They said it was a deal. Deal or not to high for me. I had to move on to the QSM11's.

As to the answer to your question deal going on i was lead to believe it would be over in a few weeks or so. Last year. I missed a pair that were being taken out because they did not push the 63 the suspected speed. They decided to keep them.

 

[hunshatt]

If the boat is not making uncontrollable hard turns at high speeds you do not have to worry. Your boat was made to run about that fast but if you push it somewhere in the 28 knot range watch out.
I am by far no expert but i have heard the magic number is 26 knots. Of course diffrent speeds for diffrent boats.

it isn't acting up at all, but I thought there was mention of getting on plane easier... at some point I expect to throw a set of diesels in figured if it was helpfull I'd do it this winter during the haul

 

[Mike36c]

My series one 36 with 330b's hit 30kts with no issues at all, my buddy's series one 45 with M11's scared the hell out of me on the sea trails doing as described. She'll cruise 28kts no problem but on the pins watch out. I passed along this info to him. Thx

 

[brian4190]

Hey guys I have 36 series 2 re powered with Cummings 450's. my boat acts up over 25 knots but that's not a problem as my cruise is about 20. My problem is when in large steep following seas at anything over trolling speed the boat will keel walk going down the face of the wave very scary . I have considered removing the keel it . Do you think the modifications would correct this?

 

[brian4190]

Of course this may be a mute point as I may get hit by a cat 5 this weekend and lose my boat