Hatteras Resale Prices

[dottieshusband]

"Maybe it's good u guys are all retired, cause even a little risk taking is clearly too much. I risk capital every day"

+1... Plus, they've never made money factoring receivables.. get in to a good deal and the debt is very saleable.

 

[Boatsb]

I've never had the chance to sell an asset above its value. If its worth $150k getting 150 cash plus 50 on a note makes no sense. If someone can't afford it without additional financing they may not be the right buyer.

 

[rsmith]

"Maybe it's good u guys are all retired, cause even a little risk taking is clearly too much. I risk capital every day"

+1... Plus, they've never made money factoring receivables.. get in to a good deal and the debt is very saleable.

Bad debt is only saleable if your a big bank and the government bails you out with TARP. Most of us have been screwed over so many times by bad tenants and grifters we may be jaded. But when you've spent tons of money on lawyers trying to evict people and collect money only to end up with penny's on a dollar if your lucky you'll be shaking your cane too. Rental property's? You must be a neophyte. Because the tenant today has all the rights. How about commercial and industrial property? Yeah that's great. Took me 4 years to evict a commercial tenant. My lawyer and I sat in bankruptcy court and had the judge tell us that we couldn't evict the company because they needed to stay in business to pay off the other creditors. 2 million down the rat hole on that deal and I ended up when they liquidated with a contaminated property to remediate.

 

[Finalee]

No question if banks would finance these old girls the values would be higher. I'm not retired , have risked it all several times. Just would not risk a dime offering owner financing on a boat, or car for that matter. Real estate is a different story.
Even then its done because of a credit issue, or market slow down. Realestae has historically appreciated, which makes it an asset.

 

[Tinman]

Price her right and let her go...remember the 'Repo' tv shows...banks hate keeping a Repo floating and usually need a lot of TLC.

 

[Finalee]

Bad debt is only saleable if your a big bank and the government bails you out with TARP. Most of us have been screwed over so many times by bad tenants and grifters we may be jaded. But when you've spent tons of money on lawyers trying to evict people and collect money only to end up with penny's on a dollar if your lucky you'll be shaking your cane too. Rental property's? You must be a neophyte. Because the tenant today has all the rights. How about commercial and industrial property? Yeah that's great. Took me 4 years to evict a commercial tenant. My lawyer and I sat in bankruptcy court and had the judge tell us that we couldn't evict the company because they needed to stay in business to pay off the other creditors. 2 million down the rat hole on that deal and I ended up when they liquidated with a contaminated property to remediate.

Now "dead beats" Completely new level of dastardly conduct. Oh and to top it off, when they do go to court it is with a court appointed attorney.

 

[dottieshusband]

Most states and municipalities apply the URLTA. It's never taken me more than 30 days to have a tenant evicted. Bad debt is hard to sell, that's why you sell it while it's a performing loan secured with a preferred ships mortgage.

 

[rsmith]

Most states and municipalities apply the URLTA. It's never taken me more than 30 days to have a tenant evicted. Bad debt is hard to sell, that's why you sell it while it's a performing loan secured with a preferred ships mortgage.

Yeah yeah yeah. Took me 6 months to get rid of this guy and he was a PHD that worked for Merk. Only got rid of him because he went back to India to make your Lipitor

 

[Tinman]

Bad debt is only saleable if your a big bank and the government bails you out with TARP. Most of us have been screwed over so many times by bad tenants and grifters we may be jaded. But when you've spent tons of money on lawyers trying to evict people and collect money only to end up with penny's on a dollar if your lucky you'll be shaking your cane too. Rental property's? You must be a neophyte. Because the tenant today has all the rights. How about commercial and industrial property? Yeah that's great. Took me 4 years to evict a commercial tenant. My lawyer and I sat in bankruptcy court and had the judge tell us that we couldn't evict the company because they needed to stay in business to pay off the other creditors. 2 million down the rat hole on that deal and I ended up when they liquidated with a contaminated property to remediate.

Just evicted a commercial tenant...now have to sue to collect...then get judgement/lien on a his property...then foreclose on property to get even...maybe. Lawyer fee's will be equal or more to debt owed if not contested. Also, have had a tenant go bankrupt...forget even trying to collect on that. Simply another form of welfare by the biased court system....all the rental laws are created by lawyer/ politicians. oh, forgot to mention the tenant just evicted was closing on a residential lot while he was being evicted...the very property we will be foreclosing on if not paid...go figure??lol

 

[HahnR]

We financed a good portion of our recent purchase, a '78 MY. We didn't borrow that much, but the bank will go up to 80% of the survey valuation or purchase price, whichever is less. Obviously we have good credit, & we've been at the same marina in the same town as the bank for 15 years. Our history shows it's a pretty safe loan for them, but just the same loaning 80% of a subjective price on a 40 year old depreciating asset definitely is a leap of faith on their part. No doubt our personal history was a much greater factor than anything they would recoup on a repo.

I would venture to say, a good deal of the purchases of these older boats are paid for with a first or second mortgage on a paid for or almost paid for home. I could for sure be wrong, but I would think most people with $150k - $200k of loose change in their pocket would probably buy something requiring a lot less effort to maintain than a 40 year old boat, unless that is just their hobby. I guess to answer Mark's question, I'm saying I don't know how much effect another form of creative financing would ultimately have on the market value of these old girls. It's just a certain type of individual in the market for them, not your everyday Joe wanting to be a boat owner.

 

[ronparise]

I've never had the chance to sell an asset above its value. If its worth $150k getting 150 cash plus 50 on a note makes no sense. If someone can't afford it without additional financing they may not be the right buyer.

Of course that makes no sense. But $50000 down and a $150,000 note, might

 

[tom5518]

"Maybe it's good u guys are all retired, cause even a little risk taking is clearly too much. I risk capital every day"

+1... Plus, they've never made money factoring receivables.. get in to a good deal and the debt is very saleable.

I have no problem doing such things in a business deal if it makes sense. However, boats will NEVER be a business deal to me. When I am done with a toy, be it a boat, car, or even my residence, cash me out.

Most states and municipalities apply the URLTA. It's never taken me more than 30 days to have a tenant evicted. Bad debt is hard to sell, that's why you sell it while it's a performing loan secured with a preferred ships mortgage.

See above

Yeah yeah yeah. Took me 6 months to get rid of this guy and he was a PHD that worked for Merk. Only got rid of him because he went back to India to make your Lipitor

I have paid a-holes like that to leave. The faster you can get your shit out of my place, the more I'll pay you. And we ain't talking days, get your shit out in an hour. Hasn't always worked but it has saved me much time and headaches when it has.

Of course that makes no sense. But $50000 down and a $150,000 note, might

I wouldn't carry a note on a boat even if Bill Gates was buying it. I'll take less to not have to think about it ever again.

My opinions only, I may be wrong.....

 

[pizzazsdaddy]

The arguments here are all valid. BOATSB...right on. PETE also got the essence of it. PASCAL is right too!
By the way, the last built nice looking 'Flush Aft Deck Motor Yacht' model I'm aware of was the 2005ish Jefferson 60 Marquessa. Jefferson is no longer in business.
I've just been through this shopping adventure with a friend of mine. And while they do exist, we couldn't find a single currently available older Hatteras that met the condition standard we wanted for under $500,000. PERIOD. The only wise option left was the newest, cleanest modern boat we could find.
While I hate the pilothouse design of the 'modern motor yacht', it's the only design recently built these days. We looked at a lot of late model junk too.
After weighing every factor, my buddy bought a Great Lakes since new, inside winter stored since new, 2003 model 57 Carver, with only 700 original hours on Cummins QSM11s. He paid Top Market Price, but it was more than justified for a boat in 'true new boat condition'. Surveys were near flawless. Cummins did find a valve cover seal leak on both engines. But also discovered the repair was under a previous recall and Cummins is correcting the issue for free. How about that for Cummins integrity?

No, it doesn't feel like or handle like an old Hatteras, no modern boat does...or is built like one. But the 57 Carver is a fairly well built US made motor yacht that can do 27 knots, along with an exquisite cherry wood interior and a comfortable 3 stateroom layout with modern electronics and modern everything for 15% of a new boat replacement. A lot of 'Value' there!

Here's an interesting fact. Carver built more than 350 53/57 Voyager models during 11 years of production, VS 349 53 Hatteras Motor Yachts produced over 18 years.

 

[krush]

By the way, the last built nice looking 'Flush Aft Deck Motor Yacht' model I'm aware of was the 2005ish Jefferson 60 Marquessa. Jefferson is no longer in business.

While I hate the pilothouse design of the 'modern motor yacht', it's the only design recently built these days. We looked at a lot of late model junk too.
After weighing every factor, my buddy bought a Great Lakes since new, inside winter stored since new, 2003 model 57 Carver, with only 700 original hours on Cummins QSM11s.
Here's an interesting fact. Carver built more than 350 53/57 Voyager models during 11 years of production, VS 349 53 Hatteras Motor Yachts produced over 18 years.

There is a reason nobody makes a "Flush Aft Deck Motor Yacht"...the design is of little value for people that actually leave the dock and use the boat for water activities (even if this is just boarding a dingy). The raised pilot-house is here to stay and hatteras missed the boat on not making one sooner. They could've shared a hull with convertibles.

I never knew of that carver model, but if I had to choose between it and a 53MY, I'd take the carver every day (can't believe I said that). The carver has an aft deck, and the salon is at cockpit level. I don't like the steps up to just go back down to the state rooms, though.

I couldn't care less about no aft state room. There shouldn't be a berth back there anyway, as there are too many mechanical things that need servicing and it's likely where leaks will come through in an emergency. I can't imagine have everything in my lazarette covered by interior and inaccessible.

To be fair, Hatt sold many other size MY besides the 53, so I think you really need to count those when comparing numbers. But carver is still making a large number of yachts, and Hatt has been sold a few times.........

 

[Pascal]

Again there are dozens and dozens of flush deck MY being built these days. A 10 minute dock walk in areas where 60+ MY are popular will show you that this is still the most popular design. Obviously you won't see. Many in smaller marinas up north.

What has happened since the old hatt design is that builders had incorporated large swim platoforms with stairs instead of the ladders of the 70s. 6' deep platforms are common nowadays and are just as practical as cockpits.

Having racked up over 5000 hours and probably close to a 1000 nights on the hook on various 70+ MYs in the last 10 years I will never get a raised helm boat. Even just a few steps up to the helm or foredeck kills the flow on the boat, and your knees at the end of the day.

Also when using the boat in warm climate, a sunken cockpit is much hotter than a higher aft deck which has much better ventilation

 

[Pete]

There is a reason nobody makes a "Flush Aft Deck Motor Yacht"...the design is of little value for people that actually leave the dock and use the boat for water activities (even if this is just boarding a dingy). The raised pilot-house is here to stay and hatteras missed the boat on not making one sooner. They could've shared a hull with convertibles.

I never knew of that carver model, but if I had to choose between it and a 53MY, I'd take the carver every day (can't believe I said that). The carver has an aft deck, and the salon is at cockpit level. I don't like the steps up to just go back down to the state rooms, though.

I couldn't care less about no aft state room. There shouldn't be a berth back there anyway, as there are too many mechanical things that need servicing and it's likely where leaks will come through in an emergency. I can't imagine have everything in my lazarette covered by interior and inaccessible.

To be fair, Hatt sold many other size MY besides the 53, so I think you really need to count those when comparing numbers. But carver is still making a large number of yachts, and Hatt has been sold a few times.........

Krush, no doubt I will once again get the push back from the flush deck aft stateroom motor yacht fans, but I could not agree with you more. We came from a Hatteras 44 Tri-Cabin flush deck motor yacht and knew without a doubt we wanted several differences for our next boat. The priority list was a cockpit, galley up, total access to the main engine drive trains and running gear, complete separation of the engine room and access to it from the living space (first on the Admirals list), weather protected steering station, to name just the top of the list.

The best purpose for an aft raised deck is as a platform for conversations with dock walkers while tied to the dock. There are those who state that a swim platform is a substitute for a cockpit, I disagree based on my experience.

Choice is great, we made ours and have never looked back, others will have different priorities which is great, but for the prospective buyer, let me suggest you experience a day of traditional boating activity on a style boat you like, before making a decision.

Pete

 

[Tinman]

The arguments here are all valid. BOATSB...right on. PETE also got the essence of it. PASCAL is right too!
By the way, the last built nice looking 'Flush Aft Deck Motor Yacht' model I'm aware of was the 2005ish Jefferson 60 Marquessa. Jefferson is no longer in business.
I've just been through this shopping adventure with a friend of mine. And while they do exist, we couldn't find a single currently available older Hatteras that met the condition standard we wanted for under $500,000. PERIOD. The only wise option left was the newest, cleanest modern boat we could find.
While I hate the pilothouse design of the 'modern motor yacht', it's the only design recently built these days. We looked at a lot of late model junk too.
After weighing every factor, my buddy bought a Great Lakes since new, inside winter stored since new, 2003 model 57 Carver, with only 700 original hours on Cummins QSM11s. He paid Top Market Price, but it was more than justified for a boat in 'true new boat condition'. Surveys were near flawless. Cummins did find a valve cover seal leak on both engines. But also discovered the repair was under a previous recall and Cummins is correcting the issue for free. How about that for Cummins integrity?

No, it doesn't feel like or handle like an old Hatteras, no modern boat does...or is built like one. But the 57 Carver is a fairly well built US made motor yacht that can do 27 knots, along with an exquisite cherry wood interior and a comfortable 3 stateroom layout with modern electronics and modern everything for 15% of a new boat replacement. A lot of 'Value' there!

Here's an interesting fact. Carver built more than 350 53/57 Voyager models during 11 years of production, VS 349 53 Hatteras Motor Yachts produced over 18 years.

The market is thin and over priced. Hard to pony up when you know your upside down going in to a depreciating asset. We have looked at a number of RPH's and MY flushdecks, most need a bit of work and updating. Not much out there in our range that get us excited.

 

[krush]

Again there are dozens and dozens of flush deck MY being built these days. A 10 minute dock walk in areas where 60+ MY are popular will show you that this is still the most popular design.............

Having racked up over 5000 hours and probably close to a 1000 nights on the hook on various 70+ MYs in the last 10 years......

We aren't talking about 70-100 foot yachts in this thread. We're discussing 40-55 foot boats.

But for every flush deck (even in the big yacht world), there still appear to be many more raised pilot house (even if it's just 1 or 2 steps). Nordhavn, Ocean Alexander, Flemming etc etc. Raised pilot house separates the captain from the owner...which makes sense.

I've been on 550 foot ships that have nice big engine rooms....I wish I had that space on my 41c. It's pointless to compare large vessels to smaller boats we are discussing.

 

[Pascal]

Again you cannot have a 40/50 Flush deck, it just doesn't work this is why Hargrave's original 50 was so ground breaking : he made it work and it's what launched hatteras into dominating the small MY market all the way to the early 90s

Actually a Raised aft deck is better for privacy at the dock being higher up. Cockpits are better for fishing underway but anchored a 6' deep platform with stairs works just as good.