First Impressions on our new Analytic Systems charger....ugh!

[SKYCHENEY]

Can you charge the starting bank with your Outback? My installer said the boat isn't set up to let the current flow that way. That my Analyitc will charge both banks but the Outback house only. ??

Same here. I can charge the house bank with the Outback while the Analytic will charge both banks independently.

I also have the option of tying both banks together, so technically, it is possible to charge both with the Outback, but it would look at it as one big bank and not two independent banks.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Revisiting our inverter selection, I'm fairly convinced that I want to stay with a 32v system, rather than a 24v separate system, so that I have a redundant battery charger for the house bank - something I never really thought of prior to having to go a week without DC power. Thank goodness I had put all those Vacuflushes on their own separate 12v system with their own dedicated charger, so we were really only using the 32v shower sump pumps from our 32v supply all week. So, back to the Outback - is this the unit we want (with the Mate, of course)? http://www.solar-electric.com/vfx3232m.html And for those of you who have it, where did you install it? Is it OK in a hot genny room which is subject to the Florida humidity?

Mine is in the genny room right next to the house bank. That makes for short cable runs.

 

[Pascal]

You dont have too many options but the genny room since that s where your batteries are

Are you going to add an inverter bank? If so, where? If on stbd side, you may be as to install the inverter I a cabinet in the crew area and still be within 10' of the bank. I don't recall off hand.

The only downside to the Outback is that they only have one input line which is shared fit pass thru and charging. This means that while charging you can only send 30amp to the inverter. If you are using 20 amps for your fridge, lights, TV, etc that only leaves 10amps of AC power for recharging the bank which means it s going to take 2 or 3 times longer.

To avoid that issue you may want to install the inverter in manual mode and use a manual switch (rotary or breaker with safety slide) to select the inverter as a source like shore or genset. You loose the convenient of automatic transfer but will recharge a lot faster.

Most inverters like the 24v magnums have 2 input lines so you can have a full 30amps for your pass thru loads and another full 30 amps to recharge. This can mean 3 hours of genset time a day, or $12 a day. It adds up.

 

[Boatnut]

You dont have too many options but the genny room since that s where your batteries are

Are you going to add an inverter bank? If so, where? If on stbd side, you may be as to install the inverter I a cabinet in the crew area and still be within 10' of the bank. I don't recall off hand.

The only downside to the Outback is that they only have one input line which is shared fit pass thru and charging. This means that while charging you can only send 30amp to the inverter. If you are using 20 amps for your fridge, lights, TV, etc that only leaves 10amps of AC power for recharging the bank which means it s going to take 2 or 3 times longer.

To avoid that issue you may want to install the inverter in manual mode and use a manual switch (rotary or breaker with safety slide) to select the inverter as a source like shore or genset. You loose the convenient of automatic transfer but will recharge a lot faster.

Most inverters like the 24v magnums have 2 input lines so you can have a full 30amps for your pass thru loads and another full 30 amps to recharge. This can mean 3 hours of genset time a day, or $12 a day. It adds up.

I guess you could use 2 inputs providing the two inputs are from different sources. Two devices at 30 amps is 60 amps, which I think you will find exceeds your 50 amp service even if you have 50 amp service.

As for how far away the inverter can be, I'd call the manufacturer and find out if you can mount it further away, and upsize the wire accordingly.

Not to mention that the popular golf cart batteries do not like quick charging, they are deep cycle, and work best with deep recharging.

 

[davidwigler]

I haven't bought an Outback yet but had a xantrex 3012 on my last boat. Although it had two 30 amp passthroughs the charging circuit still shared power with other circuits on the boat. Unless you are constantly using high amperage appliances on the charging circuit it is not a problem.

For example if you run a 1,000 watt microwave and 800 watts of lighting, refrigeration and other loads, that leaves 1,800 watts available for charging on the 30 amp circuit. (amps times volts = watts). The outback charger is probably limited to around 1,200 watts (40 amps at 32 volts) so there is plenty of capacity. Charging amperage reduces gradually during the bulk charge phase anyway. Unless you have a stove or water heater running on the passthrough circuit I doubt there would be any meaningful increase in charging time.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

20amps goes to charging on the Outback so that's like 60amps at 38 volts. (20x120/38=63 less any inefficiency=60 amps).

It recharges very fast.

 

[Pascal]

20amps goes to charging on the Outback so that's like 60amps at 38 volts. (20x120/38=63 less any inefficiency=60 amps).

It recharges very fast.

But leaves only 10amps of pass thru. Angela runs a charter boat, you just can't tell guests to turn off the lights or wait before they can use a blow dryer.

I know that on charter, we ve reached to 30amp pass thru limit a few times.

Now, obviously on charter the genny is running so it may not be an issue, but still a limitation to be aware of

 

[GJH]

As I recall the Outback has the same feature that the better Magnums (MS series) have, that is they will lower the the amount of AC amps devoted to the charger as other AC loads put pressure on the available current. So you really don't have to worry about the charger causing an over load situation. My five year old Magnum MS4024 is fed by each leg of a 50 amp 240v supply. I have a sub panel devoted to each leg. I probably could have balanced the loads a little better between the two in theory, but it has worked fine in very heavy use so far, as overall neither leg is near being maxed out; down the road I will probably add some more circuits to the inverter system.

 

[Boatnut]

But leaves only 10amps of pass thru. Angela runs a charter boat, you just can't tell guests to turn off the lights or wait before they can use a blow dryer.

I know that on charter, we ve reached to 30amp pass thru limit a few times.

Now, obviously on charter the genny is running so it may not be an issue, but still a limitation to be aware of

If on a charter, and the genny is running, why do you need an inverter during the peak hours? I thought inverters were for light loads and sleeping comfort while on the hook.

With customers on board and the idea of comfort at sea, would't the generator be running for the a/c anyway? I mean really, it gets hot under some of them blow dryers.

Now you Yankee guys up in the tundra, I say let the ladies do their hair before you take your shower, the head is nice an toasty then.

 

[Pascal]

"If on a charter, and the genny is running, why do you need an inverter during the peak hours? I thought inverters were for light loads and sleeping comfort while on the hook."

You don't need the inverter during peak hour while the genny is running but you need to feed pass thru loads and with a single input inverer whatever passthru loads you have reduce the amount of power going to the charger and increase charge time

As mentioned,it may or may not be an issue, it depends on how you use the boat

 

[Angela]

First, I admit that DC electricity is not my forte. That said...

I think the way I will mostly use the inverter is during the winter when I am using the boat away from the dock for my own personal use. With charter guests aboard, yes, the genny will always be running. During the summer, charter or not, the genny will almost always be running , unless we leave the boat unattended to dine ashore or to go visit the sandbar in the Hober. When I'm cooking, the genny will be running to power all the 220v stuff, and I do spend a fair amount of time in the galley - I love to cook - so, I'm thinking that's when the inverter would be charging the batteries back up. What I really want the inverter to do is run the refrigerator, KVH/TV, internet, garbage disposal, and coffee maker when the genny's not running. I have regular DC for everything else that's not 220v, i.e. lights, water pump, toilets, etc.

 

[GJH]

Angela, that's pretty much how we use our inverter though you aren't using that garbage disposal within 3 miles of the coast are you?. We have quite a few AC lights in the salon why? ask two POs ago, sound system, microwave, wine cooler. We have a large Sub Zero side by side reefer. It's all worked out fine so far, because to your point, the genset gets run anyway usually twice a day for cooking, dishwashing, laundry etc. So 400+ amp hours at 24 volts has done the job fine, even when we lived full time on moorings. I'm replacing the 4 L16 batteries tonight after 4 1/2 years, we have sucked the last watt out of them.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

But leaves only 10amps of pass thru. Angela runs a charter boat, you just can't tell guests to turn off the lights or wait before they can use a blow dryer.

I know that on charter, we ve reached to 30amp pass thru limit a few times.

Now, obviously on charter the genny is running so it may not be an issue, but still a limitation to be aware of

Don't set it up to use the pass-thru. I didn't. Either use is as an inverter or use it as a charger. If it is in inverter mode, wire it just like a second genset. Once on shore or gen power, just use it like any old charger. Simple and it works.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

First, I admit that DC electricity is not my forte. That said...

I think the way I will mostly use the inverter is during the winter when I am using the boat away from the dock for my own personal use. With charter guests aboard, yes, the genny will always be running. During the summer, charter or not, the genny will almost always be running , unless we leave the boat unattended to dine ashore or to go visit the sandbar in the Hober. When I'm cooking, the genny will be running to power all the 220v stuff, and I do spend a fair amount of time in the galley - I love to cook - so, I'm thinking that's when the inverter would be charging the batteries back up. What I really want the inverter to do is run the refrigerator, KVH/TV, internet, garbage disposal, and coffee maker when the genny's not running. I have regular DC for everything else that's not 220v, i.e. lights, water pump, toilets, etc.

Angela,
My 3232 will run just about everything on the boat except 220v loads. So, even if we have guests aboard, they can do whatever they please. They can run a hairdryer, turn on 110v lights, or anything else. The only time we need the genset is for cooking, the hot water heater, or running A/C.

The best part of hooking it up like a second generator is that everything on the boat that is 110v works. You don't have to choose which circuits you want to be on inverter when you're wiring it up. Everything works: Lights, TV's, microwave, plugs, etc.

 

[davidwigler]

Sky, would you mind posting a pic of the new generator switch you installed for the inverter, along with an elementary wiring diagram? Does the inverter feed all circuits on both legs of all three ships service panels? If so how do you disconnect all the 240 volt circuits? Are they being fed by one leg only?

In short, my question is do you have to remember to turn off any circuits when you switch to inverter power?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Sky, would you mind posting a pic of the new generator switch you installed for the inverter, along with an elementary wiring diagram? Does the inverter feed all circuits on both legs of all three ships service panels? If so how do you disconnect all the 240 volt circuits? Are they being fed by one leg only?

In short, my question is do you have to remember to turn off any circuits when you switch to inverter power?

I could get you a photo, but not for a few days. It is just a breaker with a slide. I choose to energize the generator breaker or the inverter breaker. It runs from there via the OEM switching panel with no further modifications.

And yes, both legs are then fed the same 120v leg coming from the inverter. I usually turn off all of the 240v breakers but it is probably not necessary. In fact, we have run the washing machine on the inverter before. It is on a 240 breaker, but only the dryer requires 240. The washing machine runs just fine and only draws about 6amps.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Here are pics of the inverter breaker