Crossing to BeeHoms 53 Motor yacht vs 53 Sportfish

[SKYCHENEY]

Is this the thread yall are referring to:

http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/sh...ts-offshore-60-E.B.-vs-53&p=158863#post158863

 

[Boatsb]

Is this the thread yall are referring to:

http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/sh...ts-offshore-60-E.B.-vs-53&p=158863#post158863

2 years and going. I think that horse drowned already.

By the way what car is better? Ford or chevy?

What makes a better pet? Dog or cat?

Would you rather cross in a convertible or a motoryacht?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

2 years and going. I think that horse drowned already.

By the way what car is better? Ford or chevy?

What makes a better pet? Dog or cat?

Would you rather cross in a convertible or a motoryacht?

Ford
Dog
Doesn't matter as long as I'm on it.

 

[ron6785]

Fellas we're talking about going to the Bahamas it's 55-60 miles you can cross in a row boat in good weather. Crossing the Mona , the Gulf or going to Bermuda then maybe sea worthyness would be an issue.

We have friends that have a 38ft english built express cruiser, with deisels that have gone all thru the caribe, the western Gulf , Mexico , Rio Dulcie. Which proves if your patient enough or stupid enough you can get just about anywhere on anything if the weather is good.

As many who have been there can attest there is just about every kind of boat you can imagine in the Bahamas alot of which I wouldn't take out on a lake on a windy day.

 

[hyperfishing]

Dan waited for about two months (I met him and Deb in Palm Beach) for the stream to calm down before taking his 43? Motoryacht across last winter. Lot of others were likewise also stuck in Florida for months before they could cross.

No way would I want to blow half the Bahamas winter cruising season by doing that. We crossed our gofast from Nantucket to Newport in NOAA 8 Foot+ seas, and I'd be more inclined to blast through up to 8 foot seas to BeeHoms than waste much of the winter. Given that, it seems clear that a SF is a better fit for us.

Interesting what Pascal said about quieter winter seas further south though. Given that, I frankly do not understand why folks did not just go south before crossing the stream.

In terms of an enclosed bridge SF, it would seem logical that a 58 with a six foot draft would roll less than a 60 with a 5 foot draft. It also seems logical that a 53 SF particularly with heavy 12Ns, is going to roll the least of all three, even with a tower. Also, the 4 foot draft gets you into more places. Ergo, the 53 wins. I would rather be wet (like we are used to in the gofast) on an open bridge, than rolling in an enclosed bridge. Wifey and I do not like to wait for weather, except for fog. Not interested in stabs of any kind.

Note: I did go back and look at the old thread, seems I got my answer then too. I now envision a totally different use for the boat than back then. The 60 foot EB MicroKap is now available for a very low price, but old 12N 53 Sfs are even lower! The prices of these boats have nothing to do with seaworthiness. They are all great boats.

 

[sportfish 45]

I guess I agree with Mr Smith on at least one thing. Make sure you take some photos when your out in those 8' seas. I think those NOAA 8' seas might be diffrent than other 8' seas. And whatever you do don't steer from the bridge the added weight could be catastrophic.

 

[Pascal]

Most people tend to over estimates wave size but what makes the stream different are the steepness and the frequency.

A few years ago, I was crossing to Bimini and the forecast was marginal with E winds 15 to 20. I decided to take a look. Believe me there was no doubt about where the gulf stream was. Went from a fairly smooth 22kts ride to 18kts then off plane to 12 and ended up turning around, all within a few minutes

Basically what you are doing going from a MY to SF is trading interior space for a lower CG. If looking for a SF as a cruising boat, I would avoid one with a tower to keep the CG down

 

[thoward]

Dan waited for about two months (I met him and Deb in Palm Beach) for the stream to calm down before taking his 43? Motoryacht across last winter. Lot of others were likewise also stuck in Florida for months before they could cross.

No way would I want to blow half the Bahamas winter cruising season by doing that. We crossed our gofast from Nantucket to Newport in NOAA 8 Foot+ seas, and I'd be more inclined to blast through up to 8 foot seas to BeeHoms than waste much of the winter. Given that, it seems clear that a SF is a better fit for us.

You are way over-thinking this crossing thing. There is always at least 1 opening every 1-2 weeks. Pick the right boat for 90% of your needs, not for some unlikely hypothetical weather condition. We fish fairly hard core so I spend a lot of time in the stream and can tell you that you will not be crossing in short period 8' seas. Remember, you have to be able to navigate the inlets. The cold front will clear in 3 days and you cross when the winds return South. On the occasion when the fronts are nose to tail, you wait for the 2nd to clear.

 

[hyperfishing]

Pascal, as you know, the Vineyard sound can get nasty, steep and short wave period, when the tide is rushing out and the onshore wind is powerful. To me in the 30 foot gofast, NOAA 8 foot seas look like sixteen footers, wave top to wave trough. Not fun, and we are not going fast through it. I am always impressed when our bow goes "up the wave mountain" and waves never break over it.

Wifey likes climbing wet and slippery towers, I don't. She wants a tower. Must be a female thing. <gg>

Folks have also told me "you want a tower, as they are great for picking your way through the Bahama shallows." Ok.

BTW Pascal, when are you bringing Charmer up to Nantucket?

 

[Ross Macdonald]

I just read through all of this. I have no idea how difficult it is to make the passage from Florida to the Bahamas. So I can only comment from experience here on the other coast where we have made the "Baja Bash" 4 times in the last 7 years. There is a reason it is called the Bash. You run 800+nm from Cabo to San Diego. Every thing that is generated out of the Gulf of Alaska just keeps on coming down the West Coast all the way down the Baja Coast. It is relentless. Along that run there are very few places to hide. We break it into 3 legs of 200nm, 240nm and 350nm. You can hide in Mag Bay, Turtle Bay and that's it except for some marginal anchorages between Mag and Turtle. So you are very lucky if you don't get your ass kicked during all or part of these runs. Our rule is to wait for the best windows we can get using a number of websites and a routing service. We travel in a 60 EB. It is stabilized. But I have a hot news flash for you, they don't do much when heading into a head sea with a constant 20 kts. on the nose. But I can only tell you that with all of the negatives brought up about the EB 60 and stabilizers, this boat has taken way more punishment than I can take during a 30 hr. run. We always run at 9-10 kts. and totally prepare the inside of the boat for getting our ass kicked. Prepare for the absolute worst and hope for anything better. So after 3200nm of Bash travel, my wife and I feel as safe as you can feel in these conditions in this boat. I've also helped deliver other boats coming North and I can tell you there is no comparison. I know we haven't stood in the cockpit and watched 8 ft. all day long but we have been in enough s--t to know it's nice to be inside that enclosed bridge. just my 2 cents..Ross

 

[saltshaker]

In terms of an enclosed bridge SF, it would seem logical that a 58 with a six foot draft would roll less than a 60 with a 5 foot draft. It also seems logical that a 53 SF particularly with heavy 12Ns, is going to roll the least of all three, even with a tower. Also, the 4 foot draft gets you into more places. Ergo, the 53 wins. I would rather be wet (like we are used to in the gofast) on an open bridge, than rolling in an enclosed bridge. Wifey and I do not like to wait for weather, except for fog. Not interested in stabs of any kind.

Note: I did go back and look at the old thread, seems I got my answer then too. I now envision a totally different use for the boat than back then. The 60 foot EB MicroKap is now available for a very low price, but old 12N 53 Sfs are even lower! The prices of these boats have nothing to do with seaworthiness. They are all great boats.

The 60EB is a big, heavy boat. It also is a great sea boat. I can't imagine it rolling more than a 53C. There still is a lot of weight down low. The extra 2ft of beam and 30K lbs of displacement will go a long way towards stability. Given the current depressed values for both of these boats, the 60C would make much more sense to me. Similar operating cost but so much more boat than the 53C. The ER alone is worth any extra you may pay, and that won't be much if any. I have a 65EB which is an updated version of the 60EB. I always said I never wanted an enclosed bridge. One trip on the boat was all it took to change my mind. Take a typical south Fl day when it's in the 90's by 9AM, scattered thunderstorms throughout the day and tell me which boat you'd rather have. When the rain is pouring down, turn on the wipers and keep on going. That's what we had the second day of our trip home. After 10 hours of cruising in a quiet air-conditioned bridge, we weren't beat up or fatigued.

Either of these boats will get you to and from the Bahamas safely, even if the seas pick up. Sure there are times when you don't want to be out there. Pick your weather windows wisely and if you run into worse conditions than expected, you've got a much better chance of arriving safely than you would with most other brands.

 

[sportfish 45]

Most of this doesn't make much sense. 2 months for a weather window to cross over to the Bahamas isn't realistic. Then to many 60C's with stabilizers tells you all you need to know? By that rational a 30' Carver must be the most sea worthy boat afloat because I've never seen one with stablizers. Then there's the deadly enclosed bridge all that weight up dangerously high causing radical in stability. Lets say your on an open bridge with 1 150 lb guy at the helm and his 3 fat friends @ 250 lbs each join him. So you added 750 lbs on the bridge that's probably around the weight added with the enclosed bridge. Do you realy think your going to feel a diffrence in stability on an 80K Lb boat? The 60 and 65 Cs are probably some of the best boats Hat ever built They will take you anyplace you want to go and they sure look good especially the EBs.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I own a 53MY and my good friend has a 60C that is stabilized. As Jack states, the ER alone is worth it. That 60 is one great sea boat. I would not hesitate in buying one myself.

And........if you have never owned a stabilized boat, you have no idea what you are missing. Stabs are the best thing since sliced bread. I'd never own another boat without them.

 

[rsmith]

Most of this doesn't make much sense. 2 months for a weather window to cross over to the Bahamas isn't realistic. Then to many 60C's with stabilizers tells you all you need to know? By that rational a 30' Carver must be the most sea worthy boat afloat because I've never seen one with stablizers. Then there's the deadly enclosed bridge all that weight up dangerously high causing radical in stability. Lets say your on an open bridge with 1 150 lb guy at the helm and his 3 fat friends @ 250 lbs each join him. So you added 750 lbs on the bridge that's probably around the weight added with the enclosed bridge. Do you realy think your going to feel a diffrence in stability on an 80K Lb boat? The 60 and 65 Cs are probably some of the best boats Hat ever built They will take you anyplace you want to go and they sure look good especially the EBs.

Until you've laid offshore in a EB you will never understand.

 

[hyperfishing]

"2 months for a weather window to cross over to the Bahamas isn't realistic."

Well I have another friend in a 44 foot sailing cat, seasonally moored outside Pascal at Dinner Key, who never made it to the BEEHOMS two winters ago. They just did not see a big enough weather window, or reduced wave height/adequate wind speed and direction, for their schedule and comfort.

We left our gofast in Florida for an entire summer, and either hurricances, very poor weather or work got in the way of making it across the stream. If fortunate to be living in Florida, then it is a whole lot easier in picking the right conditions to cross. If you have a weekend off, and fly down to the boat, you are going to make the go/no go decision in less than perfect conditions much of the time.

I am also thinking ahead to when Cuba opens up. Now you are going from 40 miles across the stream to 90 miles from Key West. The weather you start with can change into something nasty halfway across. I know if I have stabs on my boat they are going to fail at the worst possible time, hence I don't want them. <gg>

Pascal took a picture of us leaving No Name Harbor (Miami) after 60 MPH winds the night before, as we are headed into 20 knot+? winds and a dinner date in Fort Lauderdale. Many people have told us we should have been sailors since we go out in all kinds of nasty weather. The destination is the key. Yep, it was cold, and this picture is unlikely to be used by the Miami Tourist Bureau <gg>.

The gofast may look odd, because I totally customized it for our purposes. It has flip up side rails, fishing chair, rod mountings and rear box for fishing 20 miles off the Fire Island, NY coast. Everything folds or is removeable within munutes, to return to gofast "cushion on engine hatch" configuration. Hence the name. The boat also turned out to be great for long distance cruising, NYC to Nantucket etc. Fantastic to run around in. When our plans were different, I was pretty sure I was going to tow it behind a 58 Hatteras cockpit motor yacht. Now, it really looks like a Hat. SF makes more sense for our future activities. I am in no great rush to change boats though, and it took about five years to decide this boat was right for us to purchase. Same deal for the next boat.

 

[rsmith]

"2 months for a weather window to cross over to the Bahamas isn't realistic."

Well I have another friend in a 44 foot sailing cat, seasonally moored outside Pascal at Dinner Key, who never made it to the BEEHOMS two winters ago. They just did not see a big enough weather window, or reduced wave height/adequate wind speed and direction, for their schedule and comfort.

We left our gofast in Florida for an entire summer, and either hurricances, very poor weather or work got in the way of making it across the stream. If fortunate to be living in Florida, then it is a whole lot easier in picking the right conditions to cross. If you have a weekend off, and fly down to the boat, you are going to make the go/no go decision in less than perfect conditions much of the time.

I am also thinking ahead to when Cuba opens up. Now you are going from 40 miles across the stream to 90 miles from Key West. The weather you start with can change into something nasty halfway across. I know if I have stabs on my boat they are going to fail at the worst possible time, hence I don't want them. <gg>

Pascal took a picture of us leaving No Name Harbor (Miami) after 60 MPH winds the night before, as we are headed into 20 knot+? winds and a dinner date in Fort Lauderdale. Many people have told us we should have been sailors since we go out in all kinds of nasty weather. The destination is the key. Yep, it was cold, and this picture is unlikely to be used by the Miami Tourist Bureau <gg>.

The gofast may look odd, because I totally customized it for our purposes. It has flip up side rails, fishing chair, rod mountings and rear box for fishing 20 miles off the Fire Island, NY coast. Everything folds or is removeable within munutes, to return to gofast "cushion on engine hatch" configuration. Hence the name. The boat also turned out to be great for long distance cruising, NYC to Nantucket etc. Fantastic to run around in. When our plans were different, I was pretty sure I was going to tow it behind a 58 Hatteras cockpit motor yacht. Now, it really looks like a Hat. SF makes more sense for our future activities. I am in no great rush to change boats though, and it took about five years to decide this boat was right for us to purchase. Same deal for the next boat.

WOW you fish off THAT in 8' sea's?????

 

[hyperfishing]

Nope, no fishing in 8 foot seas, just hanging on for dear life. <gg>

Call me crazy, but before I put the custom made box on the back, we used to troll 20 miles off the coast and the 3 foot seas would roll right up over the engine hatch to the rear seats, and roll off again. It is much better now, as the box stops the seas from doing that. And, it has been years since I have done that. Also used to do lots of Fire Island Inlet fluke fishing, but they gradually raised the size limit from 14 to 21 inches. Total waste of time at 21 inches, could fish all summer and not catch a 21 incher. Now I kinda like just fishing off the beach, whenever the bluefish feeding frenzy shows up. Much more time productive, and less blood on the boat. :- )

 

[sportfish 45]

I'd like to see some pics of that baby in 8' seas???

 

[hyperfishing]

Not much to see, mostly waves and blowing white spray. Small dot would be us.

A better picture would have been me, towing four other boats at once, two on each side, backwards, through a 60 MPH Chesapeake line squall. That was three years ago.

 

[rsmith]

that must be some boat you have there. Usually those pointy nose skinny boats don't do all that well in over 4-6' with all that weight in the back one wave over the transom and down they go stern first. During the Marsh Harbor leg of the 2005 BBC I saw a 31 contender go down like that. If Wayne in the Flea flicker hadnt scooped the crew up they would have been swimming for a while.