Salvage, what and when is it????????

[Avenger]

I'm not a ex-spurt on admiralty law but I think anyone who meets the criteria can stake a claim. You don't have to be a commercial operator to do so. The law goes back to the 1700's when there were no commercial operators.

I'm not either, nor do I play one on TV. The statement was based on an article by an Admiralty Law attorney, unfortunately, I haven't been able to find my copy of it. My recollection of the article is that salvage laws were established to encourage people to go into the business of salvage, but you may be correct that it doesn't preclude private individuals from making a claim. If I can find the article again I'll let you know.

 

[rsmith]

I'm not either, nor do I play one on TV. The statement was based on an article by an Admiralty Law attorney, unfortunately, I haven't been able to find my copy of it. My recollection of the article is that salvage laws were established to encourage people to go into the business of salvage, but you may be correct that it doesn't preclude private individuals from making a claim. If I can find the article again I'll let you know.

"salvage laws were established to encourage people to go into the business of salvage"
From what I've read in the 17-1800's the cargo was more important than the ship because there was someone waiting in some remote place for the "stuff". So the Owners needed to entice someone to go get it and deliver it for a reward.
Treasure hunters stake salvage claims all the time on shipwrecks that went down long ago. Most are private guys. Of cource once you find it the state comes in to claim it and you have to fight to get it back.

 

[Trojan]

I read that depending on what the outside people do, determines if the vessel was just a tow or a salvage tow. There are different types of salvage rights. In a salvage tow the salvage people are only allowed 20% of the vessels worth. A dead battery, out of fuel, damaged running gear, a grounding and such. Don't constitute a salvage tow. The vessel was not in peril. If the vessel may sink or be swamped or could crash into the rocks. That would be considered a salvage tow. I was grounded at 1:00PM when the water was blown out of the river. BUS and the CG approached me and asked if I would like a tow. I said no I'll just set here until the water returns. The CG said they would have to remove all the passengers (12) unless I accepted a tow. It was not safe to stay where I was. What's going to happen in 2.5 ft of water. Worst thing would be my holding tank would over flow. So BUS towed me 200 FT. and charged me $800. bucks. What a rip off. What if I was just anchored?

BILL

 

[Avenger]

From what I've read in the 17-1800's the cargo was more important than the ship because there was someone waiting in some remote place for the "stuff". So the Owners needed to entice someone to go get it and deliver it for a reward.
Treasure hunters stake salvage claims all the time on shipwrecks that went down long ago. Most are private guys. Of cource once you find it the state comes in to claim it and you have to fight to get it back.

Still can't find the exact article I was referring to, and other research indicates that you are correct stating that there is no specific prohibition on private claims.

However, this is an excerpt from the International Convention on Salvage, 1989
(London, 28 April 1989)


Article 13

Criteria for fixing the reward

1. The reward shall be fixed with a view to encouraging salvage operations, taking into account the following criteria without regard to the order in which they are presented below:

(a) the salved value of the vessel and other property;

(b) the skill and efforts of the salvors in preventing or minimizing damage to the environment;

(c) the measure of success obtained by the salvor;

(d) the nature and degree of the danger;

(e) the skill and efforts of the salvors in salving the vessel, other property and life;

(f) the time used and expenses and losses incurred by the salvors;

(g) the risk of liability and other risks run by the salvors or their equipment;

(h) the promptness of the services rendered;

(i) the availability and use of vessels or other equipment intended for salvage operations;

(j) the state of readiness and efficiency of the salvor's equipment and the value thereof.


Again, not an attorney, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn, but it would seem that (i) would preclude most private vessels from just popping up on the scene and then claiming salvage. i.e. putting out a fire with their saltwater washdown and specifying it as "equipment intended for salvage operations."


Link to complete convention: http://www.admiraltylawguide.com/conven/salvage1989.html

 

[stormchaser]

and charged me $800. bucks. What a rip off. What if I was just anchored?

BILL

Get a Boat US membership with unlimited towing for something like $100 per year. Best investment EVER.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Get a Boat US membership with unlimited towing for something like $100 per year. Best investment EVER.

I disagree. Most of us would never us it. It's like any insurance, only buy it if you can't afford to take the loss. If you can't afford an $800 towing bill, you have no business owning the boat in the first place. Was Trojan's bill outrageous? Yes. But how many years has he been boating and how many times has he been towed? I'll bet the tow insurance would have been a poor investment if you look at the long term.

 

[stormchaser]

I disagree. Most of us would never us it. It's like any insurance, only buy it if you can't afford to take the loss. If you can't afford an $800 towing bill, you have no business owning the boat in the first place. Was Trojan's bill outrageous? Yes. But how many years has he been boating and how many times has he been towed? I'll bet the tow insurance would have been a poor investment if you look at the long term.

You are probably right, but in my case I must maintain Boat US Membership for my insurance and upgrading to unlimited towing costs an extra $65 per year and it's like tempting Murphy's Law. As long as I have it, I won't NEED it. It is definitely true that if you can't afford a $800 towing bill, you probably shouldn't be boating.

 

[fissioneng]

I disagree. Most of us would never us it. It's like any insurance, only buy it if you can't afford to take the loss. If you can't afford an $800 towing bill, you have no business owning the boat in the first place. Was Trojan's bill outrageous? Yes. But how many years has he been boating and how many times has he been towed? I'll bet the tow insurance would have been a poor investment if you look at the long term.

I have unlimited towing for cases like our cruise last week. 42 miles from home, remote location, NO repair facilities, narrow, long, shallow channel, etc. etc. Something going wrong there would have cost way more than $800 if we had to get towed to the nearest repair facility many miles away. Also, it is so remote, that just the cost for the towboat to reach us would be big $$.

Now you ask, "why would you visit such a place?"

 

[rsmith]

Still can't find the exact article I was referring to, and other research indicates that you are correct stating that there is no specific prohibition on private claims.

However, this is an excerpt from the International Convention on Salvage, 1989
(London, 28 April 1989)


Article 13

Criteria for fixing the reward

1. The reward shall be fixed with a view to encouraging salvage operations, taking into account the following criteria without regard to the order in which they are presented below:

(a) the salved value of the vessel and other property;

(b) the skill and efforts of the salvors in preventing or minimizing damage to the environment;

(c) the measure of success obtained by the salvor;

(d) the nature and degree of the danger;

(e) the skill and efforts of the salvors in salving the vessel, other property and life;

(f) the time used and expenses and losses incurred by the salvors;

(g) the risk of liability and other risks run by the salvors or their equipment;

(h) the promptness of the services rendered;

(i) the availability and use of vessels or other equipment intended for salvage operations;

(j) the state of readiness and efficiency of the salvor's equipment and the value thereof.


Again, not an attorney, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn, but it would seem that (i) would preclude most private vessels from just popping up on the scene and then claiming salvage. i.e. putting out a fire with their saltwater washdown and specifying it as "equipment intended for salvage operations."


Link to complete convention: http://www.admiraltylawguide.com/conven/salvage1989.html

( "Salvage operation" means any act or activity undertaken to assist a vessel or any other property in danger in navigable waters or in any other waters whatsoever)
I think what Scrod has linked to here is a pretty clear as far as salvage goes.I dont see anything that limits the reward In value or entitlement. Hopefully it would preclude someone who rendered minor assistance.Luckily Most boaters are good samaritans. The whole link should be read in its entirety.

 

[BlackPearl36c]

Just had a Seatow member put in a 12,000 dollar towing claim well he had beached his boat about 10 feet past the high tide mark and had sea tow pull him back into the water and to his marina. The had him sign a salvage agreement since the vessel was no longer in navigable water which is why there was a bill instead of being covered under his membership.

BE CAREFUL and ask questions when you join these tow memberships and when you call for a tow.

 

[rsmith]

Just had a Seatow member put in a 12,000 dollar towing claim well he had beached his boat about 10 feet past the high tide mark and had sea tow pull him back into the water and to his marina. The had him sign a salvage agreement since the vessel was no longer in navigable water which is why there was a bill instead of being covered under his membership.

BE CAREFUL and ask questions when you join these tow memberships and when you call for a tow.

Several members quoted %#'s for a salvage claims. Scrods link does not show any hard #'s I think depending on what the salvor does it can be up to the value of the vessel and beyond.I think its the same salvage laws the treasure hunters down here use. I have a group of friends that just just found a wreck that is supposed to have $30mil in silver on it. what sux is its only about 5 mi from here and I was asked to be part of the team this spring. I just didnt want to put mailboxes on my boat. Would have been worth it.