Captain School

[stormchaser]

I have Boat US insurance, always have.

 

[Sparky1]

I have Boat US insurance, always have.

That's funny as I talked to them way back when, and they too only offered discounts for power squadron courses. I'm not disputing your deal, but it does seem odd. Maybe it's a geographical thing.

I'll call them tomorrow and see if they sing a different tune when I ask about discounts. I've only used two insurers in the past 30 some odd years of owning boats... State Farm and Marine Underwriters Agency. Both were the same in asking if I'd ever taken a boating safety course. Nothing else netted any discounts.

 

[Sparky1]

Allstate (my insurer) gives me a substantial discount for having Coxwain qualification in the CG Aux. The same as a civilian Capt license. I suspect that some companies are concerned that if you have a ticket you may use your boat for business reasons and not report it as such. In any event, I would ask to talk to an underwriter about it if you can't get satisfaction with an agent,

Walt

When you say that's the same as a civilian Captain's license, does that mean you can run for hire?

 

[Walter P]

Randy, Don't get cute, after all they do understand real English in Tenn. The same discount applies with either catagory as I thought I said. Believe it or not it's easier to get a Captain lic. than a Coxwain rating in the CG or Aux. For the Cox quals, you need everything for a Capt lic plus on the water demonstration of many practical factors (demonstrating your competence). Having held both at one time, I can tell you that the civilian Capt requirements were only part of the other. To answer your question however, no you cannot hire out as a "licensed operator" as a coxwain. Funny but the CG does not recognize a civilian captain lic. to operate as a coxwain either. However either should qualify someone for the best discount available from an insurer. As I said earlier ask to explain/discuss with an underwriter and they may see your point of view.

Walt

 

[Pascal]

"Funny but the CG does not recognize a civilian captain lic. to operate as a coxwain either."

that tells us something about the "quality" of a 6pack or master, doesnt' it?

if you take the 15 minute boatUS online safety course, they give you an instant 10% discount...

 

[Walter P]

Pascal,

I don't think that holding either catagory, Coxwain or Master makes for a better skipper. IMO the best skippers are those that have LOTS of experience and common sense. Having completed the requirements for a Master or Coxwain just proves that someone has been exposed to the rules and procedures, but there is no assurance of proper application of that knowledge. The Captain of the Exxon Valdez certainly knew that drinking on the job was verboten but he still did it. And plenty hot shot delivery skippers know that they shouldn't produce a large wake in a no wake zone, but many still do it.

Walt

 

[Sparky1]

Randy, Don't get cute, after all they do understand real English in Tenn. The same discount applies with either catagory as I thought I said. Believe it or not it's easier to get a Captain lic. than a Coxwain rating in the CG or Aux. For the Cox quals, you need everything for a Capt lic plus on the water demonstration of many practical factors (demonstrating your competence). Having held both at one time, I can tell you that the civilian Capt requirements were only part of the other. To answer your question however, no you cannot hire out as a "licensed operator" as a coxwain. Funny but the CG does not recognize a civilian captain lic. to operate as a coxwain either. However either should qualify someone for the best discount available from an insurer. As I said earlier ask to explain/discuss with an underwriter and they may see your point of view.

Walt

Walt, I wasn't trying to get cute. I had just never heard that a CG auxillary rank was the same as a CG licensed captain. With that, I asked the question.

Maybe it's just a difference in terminology, but I guess I don't understand the "civilian captain" designation you are using. Seems to me that unless you enlist in the USCG and serve as a captain, you would be considered a civilian captain regardless of whether or not you obtained the title through the CG auxilliary or the USCG captain's license testing.

It also seems to me the insurance companies would offer discounts based more on verifiable experience as opposed to some quickie, basic safety course taken by someone with little or no experience. Let's put it this way, would you rather be in the woods deer hunting with a 15 year old kid toting a brand new 30.06 who had completed a hunter safety course or a 60 year old guy who had hunted all his life but never taken such a course?

It would seem common sense gets lost in a lot of these licensing and insurance scenarios.

 

[Walter P]

Randy,

A member of the CG Aux is absolutely a civilian, however when that member is serving on an official assignment such as a safety patrol or SAR mission or other operations under CG orders, he/she must comply with all official CG regulations just like the regular full time guys. The main difference is that the CG Aux does not participate in law enforcement such as drug intradictions or writing citations for violation of safe boating rules. In 1939 the US Congress gave the Commandant of the CG wide ranging powers in organizing and using a civilian auxillary. During the first few years of it's existance it was called the USCG Reserves. That was changed because they do have actual reserves as well as Regulars (full time). Strangely, even a former Captain of a large CG Cutter or even a former Captain of a US Navy Aircraft Carrier cannot operate a civilian vessel for hire without getting a civilian license. I think it's a safe assumption that either of the latter two Captains should be well versed in Colregs etc.

I think that those short 8 hr boating safety classes are totally inadequate, but they are better than nothing. Fact is that boating accidents have decreased since they have become required by some states. Insurance companies set up their procedures for the masses and you need to remember that most of the folks in those companies who set policy don't have a clue about the real world on the water.

Walt

 

[Brian Degulis]

"Funny but the CG does not recognize a civilian captain lic. to operate as a coxwain either."

that tells us something about the "quality" of a 6pack or master, doesnt' it?

if you take the 15 minute boatUS online safety course, they give you an instant 10% discount...

It tells you more about the insurance companies. A license does not mean your competant but it is or should be a logical assumption from the insurance companies point of view that a person who takes the time and expense to obtain a license is probably a better risk. It's this kind of ass backward logic that has gotten the insurance companies in so much trouble.

BTW I've held a license for 30 years and have Boat US insurance the discount is no different than a safty course.

Brian

 

[stormchaser]

BTW I've held a license for 30 years and have Boat US insurance the discount is no different than a safty course.

Brian

Well, that may be true, because I did tell them that I went to class AND had my 100T. Maybe it was the "class" that got me the discount? Who the hell know, I just wish I had mentioned it sooner. lol I got my ticket when I was 21, so have now had it 14 years.

 

[Sparky1]

Well, that may be true, because I did tell them that I went to class AND had my 100T. Maybe it was the "class" that got me the discount? Who the hell know, I just wish I had mentioned it sooner. lol I got my ticket when I was 21, so have now had it 14 years.

No offense stormy, but there has to be more to your 30% discount than having taken a safety course. As best I recall, the discount for such a course with the insurers I mentioned was ~10%.

If I'm wrong about that, I'll be adding a power squadron course to my captain's school list of things to do.

 

[stormchaser]

No offense taken, even the percent very well may be off, it was back about 10 or so years ago when I had my Willard 40. Could getting married have also helped? Thats what I called them about, to make sure my new wife was covered. I also turned 25 around that same time. Maybe it was a combo of all of that?

 

[Sparky1]

Randy,

A member of the CG Aux is absolutely a civilian, however when that member is serving on an official assignment such as a safety patrol or SAR mission or other operations under CG orders, he/she must comply with all official CG regulations just like the regular full time guys. The main difference is that the CG Aux does not participate in law enforcement such as drug intradictions or writing citations for violation of safe boating rules. In 1939 the US Congress gave the Commandant of the CG wide ranging powers in organizing and using a civilian auxillary. During the first few years of it's existance it was called the USCG Reserves. That was changed because they do have actual reserves as well as Regulars (full time). Strangely, even a former Captain of a large CG Cutter or even a former Captain of a US Navy Aircraft Carrier cannot operate a civilian vessel for hire without getting a civilian license. I think it's a safe assumption that either of the latter two Captains should be well versed in Colregs etc.

I think that those short 8 hr boating safety classes are totally inadequate, but they are better than nothing. Fact is that boating accidents have decreased since they have become required by some states. Insurance companies set up their procedures for the masses and you need to remember that most of the folks in those companies who set policy don't have a clue about the real world on the water.

Walt

Walt,

Just to be perfectly clear, I wasn't trying to place any level of importance or acquired skill when I questioned your license vs what I plan to have in a few weeks. That being said, I won't expect you to salute or call me captain next time we go boating together.

I've advocated mandatory boater training and/or licensing for years. It just doesn't make any sense to me that somebody can buy a boat and head out onto the public waterways without having to prove they are capable of operating it safely with a basic knowledge of ROR. Add into that it can be done with as big a boat as a person can afford, and it seems to be downright ridiculous that this can be the case.

I still don't understand why boats can't be treated as motorcycles are as an add-on to your current driver's license. How much could it cost a state to require an operator to pass a simple written test before issuing a boat endorsement? I can see the problems with actual on the water testing, but not with a minimal knowledge written test. I hear all the invasion of privacy, too much government crap from other boaters, but I never had understood it.

 

[Sparky1]

No offense taken, even the percent very well may be off, it was back about 10 or so years ago when I had my Willard 40. Could getting married have also helped? Thats what I called them about, to make sure my new wife was covered. I also turned 25 around that same time. Maybe it was a combo of all of that?

I don't remember getting any additional discounts when I turned 25, but I don't think that applies to boats like it does cars. I'm thinking maybe your memory is off where the percentage is concerned. Welcome to getting older.

 

[stormchaser]

Welcome to getting older.

Ummm...,thanks?

 

[ThirdHatt]

No offense stormy, but there has to be more to your 30% discount than having taken a safety course. As best I recall, the discount for such a course with the insurers I mentioned was ~10%.

If I'm wrong about that, I'll be adding a power squadron course to my captain's school list of things to do.

I'm dealing with this issue right now as I apply for insurance. With Boat US, they do currently offer a 10% discount for a boaters safety course as noted earlier, but also a 10% discount for being an active member of the US Coast Guard or US Power Squadron. With both (course & membership) you can get a 20% discount!

I happily joined the Power Squadron after learning that, as I had been wanting to join for years anyway. Although I already have the safety course 10% off, now for a mere $95 USPS membership fee I'll be able to enjoy an extra $1700/yr in savings. What a deal!

Randy, FYI: the Power Squadron course I think is $35 but if you join for $95 you get the course for free! It may or may not pay off with your already low inland policy with State Farm, but it doesn't hurt to ask. It's well worth it for anyone with Boat US for sure.

 

[Brian Degulis]

$1700 off? At 10% that means your paying $17,000 a year for insurance?

Brian

 

[ThirdHatt]

$1700 off? At 10% that means your paying $17,000 a year for insurance?

Brian

Not just yet until I buy a boat and bind coverage but yes, I was quoted $17k for a $1M policy through Boat US. That's only 1.7% of amount covered compared to the $7300/yr I was paying for only $300k coverage (2.4%) on the 58YF. That was BEFORE I joined the Power Squadron so it will be 10% less when/if I bind coverage. What a bargain!

 

[Sparky1]

I'm dealing with this issue right now as I apply for insurance. With Boat US, they do currently offer a 10% discount for a boaters safety course as noted earlier, but also a 10% discount for being an active member of the US Coast Guard or US Power Squadron. With both (course & membership) you can get a 20% discount!

I happily joined the Power Squadron after learning that, as I had been wanting to join for years anyway. Although I already have the safety course 10% off, now for a mere $95 USPS membership fee I'll be able to enjoy an extra $1700/yr in savings. What a deal!

Randy, FYI: the Power Squadron course I think is $35 but if you join for $95 you get the course for free! It may or may not pay off with your already low inland policy with State Farm, but it doesn't hurt to ask. It's well worth it for anyone with Boat US for sure.

Hey, 20% is a good chunk regardless of the rate being paid. A very good friend, who I made by selling him a boat, tried to get me to join their power squadron group as to bring in some young blood (sorry Walt ), but I never did. His wife was also active, so maybe I should give her a call.

Keith, who was old enough to be my dad, ended up being my best man when I got married, but we lost him to brain cancer some 5 years later. I haven't spoken with his wife in a couple of years now, so this thread has also served as a reminder that I need to do that.

 

[trogers]

When I did my 100GT upgrade I did the course on line, through a technical college up north (Wisconsin or something cold like that). I then sat for a proctored test in the Chatanooga area, at the time I was working with NASA on Redstone Arsenal so it was the closest spot.

The online part made for quite a bit of convenience. All in all I was pleased with the upgrade course. I also started out at Sea School. The part that I enjoyed was that there was no bias in the information presentation. You had to study it all as you didn't have an instructor saying "If I were you I would take detailed notes right now, this would make an excellent exam question so I say again......"