"Wings"

[SereneWarrior]

Well, my 2-year old repairs of the wing door side panels on SERENITY (1970 53MY) have failed. These are the inch thick, balsa cored panels outboard of the aft wing door frames that set vertically between the liferail and the roof. Clearly water had previously gotten into the cores and begun rotting them. The telltale brown ooze was dribbling down both the outside and insides of them when I did the original repairs in '09. I had sounded them and taken core samples, finding where the wood inside was solid and removing the rotted material, then backfilling it with fiberglass resin. All seemed well until this winter when the "core drool" began flowing yet again. At this point, I'm ready to declare defeat and simply replace these large panels rather than repeatedly go through this process. Having seen a number of the 53/58MYs with this problem, there must be a "standard solution". Has anybody done this before? Any advice for replacement materials, etc.? Should I go for a solid wood/carpenter solution? Something else?

 

[bobk]

One inch thick acrylic doors look great.

Bob

 

[SeaEric]

I think he means the wing panels, not the doors.

I would investigate re-making them in solid or plywood, then wrap them in fiberglass and paint to match. You could use "Starboard" or some similar PVC material, but that wouldn't look very yachty.

 

[TopHattandTails]

Let me know when you figure this out! Post the fix, please....

I was going to repair this winter, but decided to rebed all the screws / screw holes in the flybridge first, to stop the leak (wherever it may be). That way, hopefully, I can see if I got the leak this summer and then repair either later this summer or next winter (I want to stop the leaker first, then repair). Mine isn't real bad, just a single coffee stain down the bright work aft, then down the white dodger board. Really shows well immediately after a washing (but not a rain). Man does that fry my $^%@#, after a 4 hour washing.

 

[lumina]

Hi All,


Top Hatt,

How much work did the fly bridge re-bed end up being? Did you lift it up off the deck?

I've been thinking about doing this re-bed for 2 years now, thankfully no leaks yet but I have a bunch of old screws and empty screw holes up there.

Did you just remove the screws, fill the hole with bedding compound and replace the screws?

I'd really be interested in your approach, how much work it ended up being and any pitfalls you ran into.

Thanks

 

[SeaEric]

Years ago, there was a 1974 Classic 53 at Piney Narrows that had solid teak wing panels. They were varnished high-gloss and had the owner's yacht club and private signal flags painted on them. It was quite elegant and classy. I guess he varnished them on the same schedule as he did the taffrails. I'll see if I can come up with a photo, but it was so long ago, maybe not.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Solid wood, or Coosa paneling faced with teak veneer plywood- but then you are back where you started, aren't you? Solid wood sounds like the way to go. They'll be heavy, and need good hinges, but that's not a big problem when you compare it to rotting doors that won't stay fixed.

 

[OBXTucker]

Gosh, this is a timely thread!

I've begun dealing with this issue again and had an email conversation with the yard earlier today about how unhappy I am with what we did last year. Basically I still have water coming off the FB that ends up splashing/damaging the Stb wing door, door frame and wing panel.

We tried a simplistic gutter system, which has not helped at all.

Someone here sent me pictures of stainless gutter "wings" they installed on the FB. While this seemed to have worked for this member, I couldn't bring myself to go this route....

I'm at the point where I'm having to remove the wing door/frame and totally redo them. Fortunately there's very little wood damage - but I HAVE to address the main culprit - Water off the FB.

 

[TopHattandTails]

Again, this is the exterior wing WALLS, not doors, just so we're clear (they're in close proximity to each other).

Gene, I was expecting a project. Fortunately, I took a screw driver and tried loosening a few screws around stantions. They spun. The screws around the bridge console also spun easily. The screws do not appear to be bedded in a plate under the fiberglass at all. Surprised me... I took all screws out of the stanchions, bridge console, hatches, anything that had a screw into the bridge back in early September. It has since sat inside heated storage. I plan to rebed with 4200 (uv stabile) and then also caulk around stanchion bases in the next few weeks. A few hours at best. I don't think a recaulk is a bad idea at all every few years, as regular maintenance. Now the main deck stanchions and cleats are another story! My personal theory is that water is intruding via the fly bridge deck and draining out the wing wall. If I have stopped the water in, I can repair the wing wall and "game, set, match".

 

[OBXTucker]

Sorry, didn't mean to derail the thread...

 

[stilespb]

The wing panels on my 1972 58' YF were about 2 inch think tongue and groove mahogony glued up to make the wide panels. I do not think they were Hat originals but could have been.

Over the years water intruded, mostly from the roof, as the tops were screwed down vertically through the roof into the wing panel then the screw holes were epoxied. Of course the panels rotted from the inside out.

Once I removed them all, I looked into all the possible options as I wanted something the would not go bad again. Coosa panels looked very interesting but in the end I decided against them because I was worried about the amount of vibration these panels see.

I finally replaced with 3/4 inch marine plywood with half round moulding on the leading and trailing edges. I encapsulated them in epoxy, then glass and more epoxy, then fairing compound, lots of sanding, then Awlgrip.

Instead of drilling through the roof again, I made special angle braces from stainless fittings and screwed them in from the bottom side of the roof.

Of course had to build up a bit with more marine ply on the outer edge of the door frames to keep the panel centered over the railing properly. Lots of varnish makes them fillers nearly invisible. There is some fancy joiner work to do this and is not just mere carpentry.

This was done is 2002/2003. Still looks great.

 

[TopHattandTails]

So, any idea were the water came from? The roof/screw/wing attachment? Other screw holes atop the bridge? Other?

 

[SereneWarrior]

Pretty certain the water just rolls off of the roof and onto the wing panels right at the top. Could be wrong, but I have no core rot problems with the roof at all. Have seen a number of these boats with the same issue and my bet is that the wings were not well sealed at the top when the "sandwich" was made.

 

[Walter P]

Great thread ..... for me. I have had the same problem on my 48 MY (1982 model) but only on the stb side. It has been bleeding dark brown for the last 4 or 5 years and I figured just calking all the exposed screws would do it but no luck. I'm going to try sanding the top of the aft deck roof to look for burried screws. Will report on progress (if any).

Walt

 

[REBrueckner]

If I were replacing those side panel roof supports, after disassembly, I'd check the underside of the roof for any fastening holes that might allow a roof leak to penetrate below, encapsulate any interior wood in the new panel at the top and use caulk up there before reassembly.

Regarding gutters: I added solid PVC, designed as spray rails, to my roof to deflect rain water from dripping off my 1972 48 YF roof on my head when walking up the catwalks outside the wing doors. I happened to place those about ten insides in from the edge...where the original aluminum gutter remains. That left a bit more roof area to collect rain outside the PVC and still drip...more than I would have liked....but even so 90% of roof water was shunted to the rear of the flybridge roof....

That PVC addition (1) stiffened the roof, (2) helped assure good footing when up there in rain, ice or snow and (3) accentuated waves/irregularities in the roof....

 

[stilespb]

On my wet wings, there were long, buried wood screws straight down through the edge of the roof right behind the aluminum trim piece and down into the wooden wings. Looked like wooden hole plugs pounded in and painted over to seal. May have been some 5200 on the srew heads but if so it was not much and had failed. Of course there are many many screw holes in line and higher up the slope of the roof where the life rails are anchored. I know I had a lot of water intursion there from before I bought the boat. It coudl have run down hill inside through the roof core sandwich and would have then been beneath the top of the screws holding the wing panels.

 

[Diver Down]

SereneWarrior, is this the panel you are hoping to replace? If so, we replaced both of ours with "Celtek", a lightweight plastic that, unlike Starboard, is paintable (meaning it will hold the paint). The material was 1" thick and was easy to cut and sand. The only downside of Celtek is that the edges are somewhat porous like a styrofoam material and must be sealed with a couple of coats of primer before painting.

 

[SereneWarrior]

Mike/Cindy, That's exactly the piece I'm looking to replace! Where did you buy the material? You're in the Hampton Roads area, I believe, and I do get down there occasionally for business. Thanks for the tip! Jeff

 

[q240z]

The shipwright here is making a set of those for a 53MY. He's using two sheets of exterior grade MDO, epoxied together and edge sealed, then entirely encased in epoxy. There's a boat running around up here with a flybridge he made out of that stuff 17 years ago, and it still looks great.

You want me to ask him what it would cost to make up another set for you? We're in DC.

 

[SereneWarrior]

q240z, Yes, I'd be very interested in knowing approximate costs for the project. Am also in the DC area and curious who is doing this work. Thanks for the tip! Jeff