Windshield Glass

[Nonchalant1]

Duh... So I was replacing the sealant and splines in my 53MY windshields and managed to crack one by using steel tools too close to glass. It just cracked the outside pane of sandwich glass, but I got'ta replace it. It's flat and rectangular, no curves. What type of glass do you use? I'll call Sam's tomorrow and ask them and order the butyl, splines, etc., but should I just take the cracked one to an auto glass place and get good quality, same thickness sandwich safety glass?

Doug Shuman

 

[SEAWISE]

Hey Doug.
Your Local Auto Glass Shop Should Be Able Cut That Laminated Glass For You In About 15 Min. Its Kinda Neet To Watch Them Cut Laminated Glass. After They Score It With There Cutter, On Both Sides. They Gently Rock It Back And Forth Until It Cracks. Then The Only Thing Holding It Is The Laminate. They Pour A Flamable Solvent Into This Crack And Set It On Fire. Melting The Laminate, It Can Produce A Small “uh-oh Pile”. They Should Have You Back In Business In Short Order.
Best Regards
Cy

 

[DLCameron2]

Doug-

Steve McPherson can tell you the spec. If it is like my previous boat (43DC 1977) the glass was a "special" tint. Our local auto-glass guy got some for us. It wasn't cheap but matched exactly. I can't find the spec right now....if you can't get the answer from Steve let us know.

By the way the prop is tucked neatly under the master berth. How are your new NAIADs working out?

DC

 

[67hat34c]

I would recommend tempered glass instead of laminated. tempered is way stronger. only down side is if it breaks, it will make a mess. any commercial galss company can get you either laminated or tempered. the tints are all standard. usualy best if you can remove old glass and take it to them to cut instead of measuring. also can match tint. plug the hole with plywood until you get new glass.

 

[smoothmove]

Tempered vs. Laminated

Some things to consider. having just been through this. The tempered glass will surely be stronger glass, but I'd be concerned about losing a windshield in heavy seas. With the tempered glass you at least have a chance to maintain some integrity against water intrusion. You can buy tempered AND laminated glass but your choice of vendors is getting pretty small. You will start to get into some pretty serious $$$ and longer lead times also becuse the tempering is done after the cutting. A lot of glass shops don't want to work with patterns anymore. They want to work off CAD drawings. If you don't have them, this might further reduce your choices. The tempered piece must be made exact because you're not going to be able to trim it. If you do go the tempered route, make sure you keep the pattern because there won't be anything left of your shattered windshield to make the next pattern.

 

[Nonchalant1]

Doug-

Steve McPherson can tell you the spec. If it is like my previous boat (43DC 1977) the glass was a "special" tint. Our local auto-glass guy got some for us. It wasn't cheap but matched exactly. I can't find the spec right now....if you can't get the answer from Steve let us know.

By the way the prop is tucked neatly under the master berth. How are your new NAIADs working out?

DC

DC,

Naiads work great so far (zero roll from turning fast on the plane) but I haven't had them out on Lake Michigan to try them in serious waves yet. I plan to do that next week.

Doug

 

[Nonchalant1]

Steve McPhereson says to use 1/4", PPG, Safety Laminated, Solex tint glass. That's what I'll go with. Thanks for the advice.

Doug

 

[eze2bme]

What is the difference in using butyl rather than silicone to rebed the glass and splines?? Just curious.

 

[67hat34c]

butyl is the old and reliable method. Silicone will work but it will depend on what type. if you use the right kind, very high acid, then it will be a very strong and waterproof seal. also makes it hard to remove the glass if that is a concern. you have to use a very high acid silicone, smells real bad, same stuff used to glue fish tanks together. never herd of one of them comming apart. check with a commercial glass company for supplier for this stuff.

 

[Nonchalant1]

Steve McPhereson also says always use 3M Marine Sealant 101 or Boatlife Caulk, and don't use silicone. I have no experience with either, so I do what he says.

Doug

 

[Jimmy Watts]

Doug,
I have had right much expereince with the glass problem that you asked about. I work with Steve at SAM's building new replacement frames for Hatteras boats and such. There are a few steps that you need to make sure that you do to prevent leaks in the near future.

I use the 1/4" laminated safety glass, (unless the owner requests tempered), the tint is most likely the green tint, make sure the edges are sanded extra good (caulking sticks to rough surface better), try an get about 1/4" gap around the edges of the glass next to the frame. Before you remove the old glass, you might get a piece of card board the will cover the window and make a pattern. This way you can leave the old glass in tact until you get the new one.

Once you remove the old glass, remove as much of the old caulking as possible. If you don't, it leak for sure. Install the neoprene gasket materail, install the butyl (if you want), place the new glass in position. If you put butyl in, make sure glass in in correct position before you set it down because it gets very hard to move once it makes contact with butyl.

With glass in place, get 1" tape and tape off the upper or outer groove in the extrusion. You need to keep any caulking out of this groove or else getting the vinyl in will be really hard. I use the Sika caulking (black messy stuff). Cleans up good with denatured alcohol. Once cauling is in, smear around pushing downward forcing it into cracks and voids. If you put the tape on in one long piece with a tail to grab to start removing it with then remove the tape and insert several retainer strips. I always wear latex throw away gloves doing the caulking. Make sure you have trash bag near by.

Let dry for about 24 hours, remove any major excess amounts with razor blade, install vinyl, squirk more caulking under vinyl, use flat object and flatten vinyl causing excess caulking to squeeze out. Let dry for 24 to 48 hours, razor blade cuts excess caulking off and then hire someone to clean the windows. Hope this helps, if you have any questions, I will be happy to answer them if I can. My number is 252-634-2214. Thanks

Jimmy Watts

 

[Jimmy Watts]

Doug and eze2beme,

I forgot about the silicone. It has a tendency to pull away for the glass and if this happens of course, resealing will be necessary. Once you have used silicone on the frame, I can not find a way to remove the residue 100%. It leave an oily, greasy feeling film that will not allow the Sika to adhere to. Other caulking might stick to it, I am not sure.

A friend of mine with an 37 has had a night mare with his windows because someone installed his glass with silicone. We have now put in new frames and now no more leaks. This is some of the experience that I can tell you about first hand.

Jimmy Watts

 

[MikeP]

Re Silicone

Silicone (RTV) shouldn't be used on or close to anything you ever hope to get anything else (like paint) to adhere. The nice thing about silicone is it CAN be used for lots of things, including lots of things for which it SHOULDN"T be. Using it as a bedding or an adhesive are two common applications for which it is very ill suited though often employed.

 

[eze2bme]

OK ... here's my dilemna ... a previous owner tried to stop a windshield leak using silicone. What do I do now? If I remove as much of the silicone as I can, what should I use to reseal with since I'll have that slick residue? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. (By the way, I only have a slight leak when it rains or when I washdown the boat. I've been using a folded towel to catch the run-off on the bridge. 1979 43DC ... so the water collects on the cabin trunk top forward of the bridge controls.) Thanks.

 

[MikeP]

Dupont Prepsol is the standard automotive body-work product for removing contaminants such as silicone prior to painting. There are other similar products but since I have never used them, I can't vouch for their capability. Scrape or otherwise mechanically remove all the pieces of silicone. Then use Prepsol as a final cleaner on the surface.

 

[MikeP]

Oops - forgot the rest...3M weatherstrip adhesive will probably do the job. It's another of those get-all-over-everything products but works well. The best way, of course would be to remove and rebed the windows completely.

 

[Genesis]

There is no way to seal a leak like this from the outside or inside with caulk on a boat. You have to pull the glass and rebed it - no way around it.

 

[Pascal]

btw, what causes glass to delaminate?

the windshield was replaced by the previous owner and suddenly a few months ago I discovered a delamination "buble" near the bottom edge of all 3 pieces. it's not getting worst, but it's about 6" on 2 of them and 2" on the third one.

bad quality glass, installation issue?

i'm going to leave with it for a while since they don't leak... i don't want to mess with them.

Great post Jimmy, I copied it in the FAQ section...

 

[Nonchalant1]

Doug,
I have had right much expereince with the glass problem that you asked about. I work with Steve at SAM's building new replacement frames for Hatteras boats and such. There are a few steps that you need to make sure that you do to prevent leaks in the near future.

I use the 1/4" laminated safety glass, (unless the owner requests tempered), the tint is most likely the green tint, make sure the edges are sanded extra good (caulking sticks to rough surface better), try an get about 1/4" gap around the edges of the glass next to the frame. Before you remove the old glass, you might get a piece of card board the will cover the window and make a pattern. This way you can leave the old glass in tact until you get the new one.

Once you remove the old glass, remove as much of the old caulking as possible. If you don't, it leak for sure. Install the neoprene gasket materail, install the butyl (if you want), place the new glass in position. If you put butyl in, make sure glass in in correct position before you set it down because it gets very hard to move once it makes contact with butyl.

With glass in place, get 1" tape and tape off the upper or outer groove in the extrusion. You need to keep any caulking out of this groove or else getting the vinyl in will be really hard. I use the Sika caulking (black messy stuff). Cleans up good with denatured alcohol. Once cauling is in, smear around pushing downward forcing it into cracks and voids. If you put the tape on in one long piece with a tail to grab to start removing it with then remove the tape and insert several retainer strips. I always wear latex throw away gloves doing the caulking. Make sure you have trash bag near by.

Let dry for about 24 hours, remove any major excess amounts with razor blade, install vinyl, squirk more caulking under vinyl, use flat object and flatten vinyl causing excess caulking to squeeze out. Let dry for 24 to 48 hours, razor blade cuts excess caulking off and then hire someone to clean the windows. Hope this helps, if you have any questions, I will be happy to answer them if I can. My number is 252-634-2214. Thanks

Jimmy Watts

Jimmy,

Thanks for the detailed info. I'm using 3M 101 Marine Sealant, per Steve M. Just two questions:

1. The instructions say 1/16th to 1/8th inch. If I leave 1/4 on each side, would the keepers reach the pane and the back of the channel OK?

2. I tried "welding" the spline material at the corners with a soldering gun as shown, but it doesn't work well at all. Is there a trick to doing that, or maybe just leave the corner full of caulk?

Thanks,

Doug

 

[eze2bme]

Oh boy ... looks like I've got a big job ahead if I have to remove the glass and re-bed. I pulled off part of the new glazing spline and then pulled out some of the old silicone. Below the silicone is a sticky, black caulk that's still sticky to the touch after years of service. It actually stuck to the silicone and pulled out in long strings! Since the previous thread said that butyl dries quick and hard, then I'm assuming that what I have is something like Silka Caulk??? If it is Silka caulk could I try removing all of the silicone and using the Silka caulk to re-bed??

By the way ... this black caulk is really a mess when you get it on your fingers ... I found that using Goo Be Gone completely dissovled it and made getting it off very easy.

Thanks for any thoughts or advise. I really don't want to have to remove all the glass and re-bed if I can avoid it ... my luck I'll break some in the process!