Windless in Minnesota

[mgernes]

In the fall of 2004 I became the proud owner of a 1973, 53MY (Beachhouse) and have had a wonderful time updating the boat. We boat on the Upper St Croix River in Minnesota which allows us access to the Mississippi River where we can travel to the many great river towns which include St. Paul, Red Wing and Lake City. Not quite as exciting as Miami, or New York, but you have to play with the hand you are dealt.

Since owning the boat I have update many areas, but one that I need to tackle this spring is the Windlass. The anchor has always gone down into the water very easly (no surprise), but as soon as I put a load on the Windlass to bring it back up it pops the circuit. Needless to say it is a real PITA to get that sucker up by hand, and as such I have not been excited to anchor out as much as I would like. I am not sure what is causing the circuit to blow, and I have replaced the oil in the windlass, but I do not see much else that I have easy access to unless I start pulling it apart, which after reading many of the threads here sounds like something that requires quite an effort.

I had a thought this morning and wanted to get some feedback from some of the experts. The port engine batteries are also going to be replaced this spring since I have had to parallel start the port engine all of last summer. Would the power source for the Windlass happen to be port batteries, and would the reason that the circuit is popping is that the battery level is so low that they do not have enough juice to operate the Windlass and the circuit goes??? This would be way to simple of a solution, but I thought it would be worth looking at.

Thanks for any feedback,

Marcus Gernes(Beachhouse)

 

[REBrueckner]

Weak port batteries might be a problem because as voltage drops current may increase to supply power. Less lijkely if your alternator is boosting voltage as you lift anchor.
What does "pops the circuit" mean. If its a breaker and it resets ok it still might be a weak breaker. If its a fuse, it could be an oxidized holder..meaning dirty connection... which heats and melts the fuse. Or maybe the right size protection device was changed!!
The first thing I'd check are the windlass motor brushes as these may be worn and/or the armature may be dirty with carbon from them. Brush any carbon from between the armature slots. (it will short them out.) Also inspect the wire insulation in the windlass motor for discoloration to see if you can detect overheating. The windlass motor may be close to failure as well.

If you can monitor the actual current draw, that may give a clue whether VERY high currents (say double or triple what is expected) are the culprit. If currents are near normal, I'd change the circuit breaker.
Let us know what you find!!

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Is it a GalleyMaid? If so, I have seen some that leak from the top seal and then you get water into the gearbox. This water/oil mix then goes to work on the inside of the gearbox (gears, bearings, etc.) So, I would pull the drain plug and check the oil. If it looks bad, drain it, then flush out the gearbox and fill with good oil. This may reduce the motor load or it may not, depending on how much damage was done in there.

Also, GM says that if it is a reversing windlass(w/ a chain wildcat), then the worm gear really wasn't designed to be reversed and will wear out from extended use for anchor deployment. You are supposed to loosen the clutch to deploy it and the motor to retreive it. So you may need to send the whole gearbox in to GM for rebuild.

If it is an Ideal, then still check the oil, but I'm not aware of any other issues with those. I owned one once, but I never had any problems with the Ideal.

 

[Beckytek]

I don't know how it is set up on your boat but on mine, the port batteries are my house bank and thus run the windlass. If your batteries are weak then that is what I would change first. Do the easy stuff first. Then run it without a load and see if it kicks the breaker. If it does kick, you can drop the motor and turn the shaft by hand and see if it is bound up. If that is okay then proceed as Rbruecker has described. If it is bound up, you have to remove it for repair. I have a Galley Maid and did mine 2 years ago and it is very easy. There is only a few parts in there to replace. One thing the factory rep told me was not to use the foot switch to drop the anchor. He said to loosen the clutch on top and drop the anchor that way. He said you can do some damage otherwise. Don't ask me why they have 2 foot switches. They also mention that in the manual. I have diagrams and schematics if you need them. Ron

 

[MikeP]

I'm not much of a fan of releasing the clutch to drop the anchor. THe whole mess just rushes out and drops in a big clump.
I guess one could modulate the clutch a bit but every time I tried it it either was too tight and didn't drop or headed to the bottom like a freight train! Sometimes the chain end up wrapped around the anchor and it wouldn't set properly.

I agree that clutch usage would reduce motor wear considerably but hey, I've rebuilt plenty of motors, what's one more!

 

[Fanfare]

If it's an Ideal the top bearing may need oiling. Pull the drum, flow a few drops of oil down the shaft. This should be done every six months or so. I hope it's something this easy!

 

[Genesis]

The problem with a worm drive gear setup like these is that when run in reverse they are run against the bearings in the wrong direction.

This leads to slop, and THAT leads to the worm and driven gear becoming damaged over time. They then either get sloppy or bind up and there you have your problem.

The shafts on these CAN be designed to take load in both directions, but this one isn't. It is designed to take load ONLY when pulling the anchor; that's where the thrust bearings are in the assembly.

Once you take one apart you'll understand why they make that recommendation.......

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Last Winter I changed our Galley Maid windlass from a rope winch unit to one with both a rope drum and a chain gypsy. Quite a tough job. I also mounted a chain pipe through 6" of various material on the bow pulpit. I lined it with a pvc tube and our 200' of chain runs smoothly. I had to install a different electrical box and mount another foot switch,(down). I was also told to loosen the clutch and let the chain fall. (So why the extra and huge relay, switch etc.). The reason is that they didn't put a thrust washer on both ends of the pinion gear. When the gear is loaded in the down direction, the face of the gear grinds directly on the cast iron case. If it wears enough, the entire housing is junk. Kinda a stupid way to do the whole thing, but that is the story from Galley Maid

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Maynard,
I did exactly the same thing last winter--added a chain gypsy, pvc pipe lining the hawse, and 200' of 3/8 HT chain. My question is: What did you do for a chain stopper? I bought that massive chrome plated stopper from GM, but I have yet to find a suitable location to mount it. It won't fit between the flanges of the roller carriage where it needs to go, so I have not done anything yet. I use a rope harness to hold the chain when anchored and a cable w/ a snaphook to hold it up while underway.

 

[Will]

In either the Galleymaid Windlass book or the Hatteras documentation for my 43' DC it mentions that the windlass shouldn't be used to pull the boat up to the anchor. You have to motor the boat up toward the anchor, then use the windlass to pull up the chain and anchor.
The breaker pops every time I ignore that instruction.

My windlass is wired directly to the Port Main Engine Battery switch.

Using the clutch to lower the anchor works OK for me but sometimes, I'll use the foot switch when necessary to add a little scope.

Will

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Sky Cheney....I bought a stainless steel thing from Mike's Marine in St. Clair Shores MI. I am currently visiting in Florida so I can't find the brand. It is robust, U-shaped, Has a captured 3/8" pin mounting a swiveling forged stainless dog that has a cut out. When the chain is where you want it you flip the thing 180 degrees and the slot catches your chain. The dog is too big to fit through the "U" so it stops. When hauling up, just start the windless for a second and flip the lever up. It fit nicely on yhe pulpit between the stainless anchor chute and the windlass. Four long 3/8" Countersunk machine screws with washers, plates, and nylock nuts in the bow compartement. Yes, don't pull the boat with the windlass. This gadget holds very well and is easy to use. If I can figure out the brand, I will PM you.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Thanks. I think I know what you are talking about. We had the same setup on a 49 Gulfstar MY with an Ideal Windlass. It did work well. I don't get down to Mikes Marine too often, since the boat is on the other side of the state, but I will do a little searching online and see if I can find it.

 

[mike41tc]

I have a Mike's Marine near me here in Gibraltar,MI. If needed I can pick one up and ship it to you. Let me know but I'll need to know better what it is you need.
mike41tc

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Thanks Mike. I will let you know if I don't find it elsewhere.

 

[Pascal]

on my 1970 53MY the GM windlass is powered by the port side batteries. if they are really weak and voltage drops, amps will go up and could probably trigger the breaker ?

first woudl be to check if the windlass can turn in both directions with no load (chain off the capstan) . then try with only the load of the anchor it self, not pulling the whole boat (bad)

i've always lowered the anchor by powering down. since i single hand the boat most of the time, i like to control the windlass from the flybridge but i use the wind to let the boat back up while deplying the anchor and if it's breezy i use a touch of fwd to slow it down. hopefully this minimize the stress on the gears.

an algternative woudl be to pull the chain off the chain gipsy and let it slide against the rope capstan. would be hard to stop if you need to though....

 

[mgernes]

Thanks for all the great advice.

When I get the boat shoveled out and into the water this spring, I will get my port engine batteries replaced and see if that solves the problem. Since I am able to raise and lower the anchor, until there is any load added, I am hoping that with good power from new batteries that the anchor will run smoothly. If not I will have to consider the other options that many of you have suggested.

As always, thank you, and good night.

 

[captwoodyb]

Hope this does not sound like a dumb question. I don't anchor out often but intend to start. Not following the "use the clutch to drop the anchor" I have a galley maid windlass , wired direct to a 12volt D battery under the front v berth in my 53 Hatt MY. On the few occasions I have anchored I used the reverse foot pedal. Is that not recommended. Not familiar with "the clutch". Also while I am on this subject, my engine alternator ion the starboard engine is real hot to the touch even when the motor is off. I mean it is really hot, can't leave you hand on it for a second without burn, any hotter and it would blister the paint. Any one have any idea whats going on? I just noticed it shut down all 32 volt equipment except the bilge pumps until I can get back down and figure whats going on. Battery charger is also hot, but not as bad. Maybe a battery causing a electricl drain ????

 

[Pascal]

i believe here is a bearing issue with the galley maid windlass that causes faster wear when you have a load in the down mode... i guess using the clutch means releasing pressure at the top... not practical especially when using the remote switch on the FB which is how i anchor most of the time to control the boat.

what i do sometimes is pull the chain off the gipsy and put it against the rope capstan for fast deployment.

as to you hot alternator, it seems like power is flowing back into the alternator... not good. disconnect the main lead to the altenator right away.

i had a similar issue with a new 32v alternator, it was defective and exchanged right away. it was hot but not burning hot!