Windlass, which formula?

[Gusshr]

Hi,

I am torn between how two sources of how to size your windlass are so different.

On one side windlass maximum pull size strength calculations of 3-4 times the total weight of the anchor and rode, and the other side is the charts that the manufacturers create.

Here is the discrepancy: if i go by the books (including the westmarine website) which recommend to size the windlass to be 3 to 4 times the weight of the anchor, chain and rope all together. So having a 45 lb CQR with 60 ft 3/8 chain (60*1.4=84 lb) plus 300 ft rope (50lb)= 179 lb X 3- 4= 500 to 800 lb maximun pull, so getting a 1000lb should do it!!!

However If you look at the windlass manufacturers websites, they recommend pullig windlass rating of over 2300lb for my 53 boat size.

Why there is a huge discrepancy between doing the calculations and what the manufacturers recommend?

With the proper use of the windlass, the weight of the boat including the wind factor has nothing to do with how strong the windlass is, because the chain or the rope would be tied to the cleat as the boat is anchored and the windlass Job is only to bring the total weight of the anchor, chain and rope up back to the boat. Freeing the anchor from the ground is the job of the motors of the boat while the chain/rope are tied to a cleat with the tip of the boat above the anchor.

Help? Thanks

 

[brico]

You are very correct and onboard ocean going vessels (of any size) the hoisting capacity of an anchor windlass is calculated to be able to lift the anchor and 3 shackles (270 feet) of chain in vertical direction off the seabed.

Often times people try to pull their boat towards the anchor and rip the anchor out of the mud using windlass and they eventually wreck it hence I believe makers recommending oversizing it.

As you said rightly, once the boat is anchored, the chain is supposed to be secured to a cleat, a guillotine stopper or a snubber line and not against the windlass.When you want to leave, you use the engine to bring the bow vertically above the anchor and heave only the slack. The moment the windlass motor starts to labour (even a little bit) you should stop, secure the chain and if needed use engine to free the anchor off the seabed or bring the bow vertically above the anchor. The chain should ideally always be in "up-down" direction.

People wanting the convenience of controlling the windlass from the flybridge and no clue in which direction the chain is leading or how much weight there is on the chain, are most likely to wreck their windlasses.

 

[Gusshr]

So you vote that I should get a windlass that is just over the 3-4 times weight of the rode?

 

[Pascal]

First of all good luck with a 45 lbs anchor on a 53... that's way too small

In the real world, when it s blowing, will you really leave the helm to go cleat the rode to relieve pressure on the windlass by clearing the chain? Not that easy...

Does anyone know the taring of the original galley maid windlases?

 

[Gusshr]

First of all good luck with a 45 lbs anchor on a 53... that's way too small In the real world, when it s blowing, will you really leave the helm to go cleat the rode to relieve pressure on the windlass by clearing the chain? Not that easy...Does anyone know the taring of the original galley maid windlases?

The ideal (pull up only) that came with the boat is a 1000w only! I believe maximum pull of 1000lbs. The CQR 45lb is properly rated for a 53 ft vessel.

 

[Pascal]

Beware of published anchor ratings... if you dont anchor much it s fine but if you anchor out quite a bit a 45 pounder is way too small especially in soft mud. I ve seen too many boats with "rated" anchors dragging or having issue setting... once i get to the vround tackle after the repower is done on mine, i m replacing the 60 lbs davis (delta look alike) with a 110 Bruce. The drop and forget a out it kind of...

Thanks for the info on the galley maid pull. I may keep mine with a dedicated 32v windlass bank instead of replacing with a 24v windlass.

 

[brico]

So you vote that I should get a windlass that is just over the 3-4 times weight of the rode?

Yes, in my books, that is more than enough with practices you are following which are correct. Some members however feel you should "bring your bow down" with significantly heavier anchor and more powerful windlass.

 

[Gusshr]

Beware of published anchor ratings... if you dont anchor much it s fine but if you anchor out quite a bit a 45 pounder is way too small especially in soft mud. I ve seen too many boats with "rated" anchors dragging or having issue setting... once i get to the vround tackle after the repower is done on mine, i m replacing the 60 lbs davis (delta look alike) with a 110 Bruce. The drop and forget a out it kind of...

Thanks for the info on the galley maid pull. I may keep mine with a dedicated 32v windlass bank instead of replacing with a 24v windlass.

Thanks for the opinion. Adding a second anchor is on my bucket list. Looking in the rode compartment, I see a huge Ideal (which works fine) tucked behind cable master blocking the way to the Windlass (pretty bad access). I am attaching pictures for my boat's tip. The starboard side of the rode compartment is for the rode and the port side is for the electric cable.

Since my pulpit is for a single anchor, I am rethinking that I need to add the automatic windlass to fit to the through deck that exist now, install an anchor roller on the rail to the starboard of the current pulpit to hold the second anchor, and split the rode compartment so it would accommodate two rodes.

What do you think?View attachment 25306

 

[Gusshr]

It is not my fault that pictures are rotated 90 degrees!!!

 

[Gusshr]

Here you go.

 

[Gusshr]

Yes, in my books, that is more than enough with practices you are following which are correct. Some members however feel you should "bring your bow down" with significantly heavier anchor and more powerful windlass.

I dont know if I will ever feel comfortable to sleep in the boat while at anchor, I am more of a marina kind of guy (especially the family), I guess you can never be over prepared for strong winds if that is what you wanna use the anchor for. I am sticking with good brand such as maxwell, and I tend to trust their weight ratings.

If it is too windy I probably wont go out boating.

 

[Pascal]

That set up is weird, definitely not standard hatteras installation

The hawsepipe should be set up so the chain feeds in the locker And it could be the pictures but it looks like there is no chain gipsy just a rope capstan

Anchoring with this must be a major pita

I don't see the need for two anchors on the pulpit, I much prefer an oversized single anchor which sets 100% of the time and doesn't drag even in a squall. You should have a second anchor as a back up with rose which can be stored elsewhere just in case you loose the primary

 

[Pascal]

I dont know if I will ever feel comfortable to sleep in the boat while at anchor, I am more of a marina kind of guy (especially the family), I guess you can never be over prepared for strong winds if that is what you wanna use the anchor for. I am sticking with good brand such as maxwell, and I tend to trust their weight ratings.

If it is too windy I probably wont go out boating.

Well with that anchor I don't blame you . We probably spend an average of 60 Nights a year on the hook and I sleep very well. Never dragged even in the occasional 60kts squall. We just got back from 3 weeks in the Exumas and only docked 3 nights but the key is oversized anchor.

And in any case I always sleep with an anchor alarm on my phone or iPad

 

[Gusshr]

That set up is weird, definitely not standard hatteras installation

The hawsepipe should be set up so the chain feeds in the locker And it could be the pictures but it looks like there is no chain gipsy just a rope capstan

Anchoring with this must be a major pita

I don't see the need for two anchors on the pulpit, I much prefer an oversized single anchor which sets 100% of the time and doesn't drag even in a squall. You should have a second anchor as a back up with rose which can be stored elsewhere just in case you loose the primary

The current windlass is only 15 ft chain and then all rope. There is no Gypsy. It sits on a raised platform. I believe that removing this windlass is a major PITA and a royal one too. Even if I remove it which means taking out the cable master at least for installation, then to have a windlass there that feeds directly to the rode compartment is also very risky proposal.

That raised platform in not that far from the proximal end of the anchor itself, and also the clearance underneath that raised section is not that great to allow for the gravity to bring the rode back to the bottom of the compartment comfortably (a risky proposal).

Thats why I think I may wanna leave it alone and simply just add an anchor on the side of the deck more aft so that the rode would fall perpendicularly to its compartment.

I am trying to avoid major fiberglass /paint work and a hefty bill. Versus adding a second anchor, a roller, and a windlass would be at least half of the first proposal.

 

[Gusshr]

Not much room as you can see.

 

[jrbrein]

Gus,

You could at least get rid of the swivel...they are more of a liability than an asset. That would at least give you a few inches.

I used to believe in swivels (and winning lottery tickets) but not anymore!

I have always kept a second anchor (Fortress) back at the stern in case I needed it for a fore and aft mooring like a Bahamian mooring in a narrow place with reversing current or I loose my forward anchor after the swivel broke! Agree with Pascal...don't like 2 anchors on the bow.

Jon

 

[Pascal]

Actually that swivel looks like a Kong swivel. They re very good.