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Why Trim Tabs

  • Thread starter Thread starter REBrueckner
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REBrueckner

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Apr 24, 2005
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  1. OWNER - I own a Hatteras Yacht
Hatteras Model
48' YACHT FISHERMAN (1972 - 1975)
Anybody know what the design pros and cons are of trim tabs? How do designers decide tabs are appropriate for a given boat? I see a lot of variation in bow angle among different boats...Is it Jersey Sportfish that always seem to run bow up?? Seems like a properly designed boat should not need them unless it's a way to simplify design, like for example reducing the need to properly balance weight fore and aft. Maybe it permits placement of fuel tanks further away from the center of gravity and therefore affords additional interior room? Or maybe reduces the need to properly balance engine weight on one handand maybe fuel and water weight over the length also affording extra flexibility in interior design?? I'm also guessing the heavier the overall weight of a boat the more likely speed requires such a balancing mechanism...
And how do tabs affect efficiency versus proper weight distribution and no need for tabs.
 
bow up for following seas, bow down for head seas, and port to stbd leaning when all of your passengers decide to sit, stand on one side. i wouldn't own a large boat without tabs. bigbill
 
Rob,

There are many good reasons for trim tabs and IMO most if not all boats benefit from them. If all boats were run at the same speed in the same conditions all the time, perhaps tabs wouldn't be necessary. Unfortunately, mother nature and King Neptune have to have their fun with us mere humans and they keep changing the playing field on us. By having adjustable trim tabs on our boats at the very least gives us a little flexibility in properly running our vessels. Big Bill gave a few good examples.

Back in the 50's we didn't have adjustable tabs and had to settle for whatever the designer felt was proper angle at his idea of what speed you should cruise. Some boats at that time had fixed wedges added at the stern to give lift and was "adjustable" as long as you hauled each time to make adjustments by installing different size wedges. I don't remember off hand but I seem to think it was a company called "Trimatic" that was an early pioneer of adjustable tabs at that time.

Walt
 
There's no way a navel architect can tell wether this guy's going to be in the stern chomping on a turkey leg or in the bow sleeping off a meal.
 

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All anecdotal inputs....and I don't disagree, but somebody at a manufacturer like HATT actually makes the decision to add another system, not cheap, with maintenance and I'd like to know why on big heavy relatively slow boats like older Hatts. If anybody has an older hatt and has ever seen his heavy seas performance change with a trim tab setting or been able to distinguish a change in speed I'd be interested. Maybe they get added to compete with other manufacturers...buyers sure don't really know....

On my prior 1972 YF I could see a difference in the forward spray pattern at high speed with different trim tab settings, no observable changle in speed via GPS, and no visually observable change in size of my wave. If there was a change in speedof 0.1 knot I did not see it. And when in heavy seas Either the boat handled just fine without tab adjustments or if the seas were really,really steep, it was prudent from handling characteristics to slow down.

As you all likely know, tabs require some speed thru water to have an effect...at idle the tab setting has NO effect. As I think big bill noted recently he's adding area to his tabs further evidence they don't seem to do much as installed. In fast light boats, say like my small Whaler, weight distribution is a big factor but once you are up on top and running fast, the speed stays pretty much the same whether my lard is in the middle or sitting in the rear....so there must be some combination in between hull extremes of slow, heavy displacement and fast, light planing where tabs may make more sense.....
 
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bow up for following seas, bow down for head seas, and port to stbd leaning when all of your passengers decide to sit, stand on one side. i wouldn't own a large boat without tabs. bigbill

Maybe it's cuz I have such a small boat compared to most of you guys....but I run bow UP in head seas so I don't take waves over the bow!
 
If anybody has an older hatt and has ever seen his heavy seas performance change with a trim tab setting or been able to distinguish a change in speed I'd be interested.

I see a change in speed.

When I’m on top I lower the tabs ‘till my speed peaks. I’ll see a knot or two increase. Correct me if I'm wrong but that’s how I adjust the tabs.
 
Whats a trimtab?

I have a 3/4" wedge at the last 10 " of the bottom of the hull that works just fine. I plane and run on a very nice angle. Someone did this before me but they did a great job. I have no need for the tabs with the boat as it is. If I repowered there would be some changes though.
 
My 53My with 8/71 naturals will not plain and I see virtually no difference in performance, however on a previous boat I started noticing performance differences at very low speed but that was because it was a fairly small boat 39ft and weighed about 20k. She would stay up on plain at 13.5knts. I also had 4 big trim tabs.
 
I am happy to address this topic, since, after some 43 years, I removed my trim tabs last year.

My Dad had Trimatic tabs installed on delivery. These were electric, with the motors inboard, a rubber collar at the stern, amd worm gears operating them. Today we know that neither electrics nor worm gears work in a marine environment.

Sets two and three were Bennets. Hydraulic, resevoir behind my bunk in the master. #2 had a single ram each, #3 was installed when I repowered in 1993 with new engines, going from 350 hp to 550. These had two rams each and were longer and wider than set #1, but retained the original resevoir and pump system. On trials, I could force the bow down, but the strain on the hull would be considerable, so I never ran this way. Fanfare has a slight port list despite my loading everything heavy to stbd. I tried to correct this with just some port down trim and it seemed to work, but mostly she seems to correct herself once we start to move, and all is gone by the time we get on plane. Before last spring we never travelled at hull speed unless there were wake restrictions, so never noticed a problem. I'm so used to our list I probably wouldn't notice anyway. But maybe slow speed would be a reason to keep them.

I removed mine for three reasons. I don't have a swim platform, so my tabs were exposed on the stern. Now, I usually dock bow in so people on the dock can't see me drinking in my favorite chair on the afterdeck. Sometimes, however, I have to back in. I do all of my running from the flybridge, and with my 11 ft Whaler behind me my visability to the back is poor. I frequently ran my tabs into the dock pilings, bending the edges. This didn't seem to affect anything, but it was unsightly, and I hate having people see my mistakes.

The second reason was the last set of tabs had a "safety" device consisting of a T-shaped plastic release device, sort of like an outboard's shear pin. Each ram had one of these, so a total of four in all. These just kept breaking, either from hitting the pilings, or, more often, from breaking seas aft. They were still fastened to the hull at their hinge, but when I slowed or stopped they would drop down from their own weight and jam the rudder(s). This was a giant surprise the first time or two! Once I knew of this problem I could give a quick jolt of forward on that side (usually only one would be broken at a time) and the prop wash would move it out of the way. This sure could disrupt a landing! And while having bent tabs looked pretty bad, having a line over the stern holding the tabs up and out of the rudders was worse.

The last reason I removed them was that they really didn't help much. With my extra power I can vary my bow attitude using throttle alone. More power equals bow higher. The tabs really only pushed the bow down. I need a higher bow for larger seas, but at some point this starts to beat the boat up too much. And, while I could try to blame the Admiral, I really try not to be caught out in these seas. At cruise speed our running angle is just fine. and so mostly I never used them.

So I took them off last year to try it. So far I am not inclined to replace them.
 
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Whats a trimtab?

I have a 3/4" wedge at the last 10 " of the bottom of the hull that works just fine. I plane and run on a very nice angle. Someone did this before me but they did a great job. I have no need for the tabs with the boat as it is. If I repowered there would be some changes though.


Well since you don't have a set you really don't know!
Most likely if you did you would be able to gain speed by adjusting them.
Also I find you can change the ride and the spray with them.

When I had the 504's in the boat it could barely plane with out using the tabs they made a 2 to 2.5 kt difference.

With the repower I don't need them as much but would still never take them off. I load the boat up for a overnighter in the canyon with 600 lbs of ice bait 12 rods 5 guys food beer etc plus most of the normal stuff still on the boat. I run the same rpm as normal and come real close to the same speed by using a little more tab other wise I would be a 1.5 kt or more below normal cruise. Now crossing the bay who cares but when your running 75 + miles offshore each way it all adds up. It also adds to your miles per gallon which these days add up to just in case no one noticed that :D
 
Traveler posted: "I’ll see a knot or two increase.."

Well, if correct, that would clearly justify the use of trim tabs on that model and horespower combination..
 
Ok Here's a thread of HP vs speed based on a post by SCROD which I found seems to work pretty well.

http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2555&highlight=expected+speed+larger+engines


On my 48 YF increasing HP from about 435 to 625 per engine increases speed by about 5 knots, from 22 to 27knots....thats 380 extra HP for 5 knots, about 76 HP per knot....

So you guys/girls tell me if anybody thinks trim tabs on a 45 ft Hatt (or thereabouts) could produce anything close to two knots, equivalent to approximately 150 HP. seems quite unlikely to me.
 
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I definitely get 2 knots at same RPM on my 43DC at cruise (Cummins 903 @ 400HP). She'll cruise about 15 knots at 2450 RPM tabs up, about 17 to 17.5 knots at 2450 RPM tabs down. In head seas I also trim up some which really make for a smoother ride at the cost of 1 to to 1.5 knots.
 
Ok Here's a thread of HP vs speed based on a post by SCROD which I found seems to work pretty well.

http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2555&highlight=expected+speed+larger+engines


On my 48 YF increasing HP from about 435 to 625 per engine increases speed by about 5 knots, from 22 to 27knots....thats 380 extra HP for 5 knots, about 76 HP per knot....

So you guys/girls tell me if anybody thinks trim tabs on a 45 ft Hatt (or thereabouts) could produce anything close to two knots, equivalent to approximately 150 HP. seems quite unlikely to me.

Well Scott got 2 kts out of a 43 that seems pretty close to me ;)

And If you read my post I would see up to 2.5 kts!


I definitely get 2 knots at same RPM on my 43DC at cruise (Cummins 903 @ 400HP). She'll cruise about 15 knots at 2450 RPM tabs up, about 17 to 17.5 knots at 2450 RPM tabs down. In head seas I also trim up some which really make for a smoother ride at the cost of 1 to to 1.5 knots.
 
With the tabs up, my bow is high. The props are pushing more up than forward. Using the tabs provides enough lift for a more efficient running attitude. Same HP used more efficiently.
 
you'd sure expect trim tabs to have more effect on a shorter hull length than a longer unless they are a lot smaller than ones on larger boats...Be interesting to know what the area of tabs are on different size boats...anyway this was only a casual inquiry.
 
Trim tabs on a 31 ft. Pursuit with twin 225 Yamahas---only used to actually adjust trim to accomodate movement of pax on boat or sea conditions.

Trim tabs on a 43C with 692's @ 425 hp ea. ---used to increase fuel efficiency by dropping bow. Averaged increase is about 1.7 kts. @ 2100 RPM.
 
On my heavily loaded 53MY_ no tabs would mean no planing, full bow down allows me to plane (sort of). So for larger boat that are a bit under powered, thay make a big difference.
 

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