What does it cost to own an older hatt?

[Woodsong]

I know it all depends on the condition of the boat when you buy it (engines, paint, interior, etc. etc.) but what do you all see as your "typical" annual ownership costs associated with owning a 30 year old lmotoryacht/yachtfish?

If when we sell our silverton we go the hatteras route, we'd most likely be looking for either 53MY or 58YF. I prefer the YF due to wanting a cockpit for water access. Ignoring the cost of financing the boat- what do you all typically see for annual maintenance on these boats? I know a well maintained older boat can in fact have less problems and costs than a newer poorly built boat but let's say worse case scenario...what's it cost to overhaul 2 diesels, paint hull and topsides, bottom paint, etc.?

 

[Passages]

If you are talking just the maintenance aspect, figure 5-10% of the purchase price annually. Assuming the boat was in good shape to begin with.

If the boat needs something major like exterior paint or engine rebuilds it will be (much) more.

Slips, insurance, and fuel depend largely on where & how you plan to boat.

 

[J's Dream]

...what's it cost to ... paint hull and topsides, bottom paint, etc.?

Even this is still a loaded question. Are you doing the work yourself? Or are you planning on hiring "professional" help to do this for you. I was hauled out (1969 45C) for 51 days and did much of the work myself.

Bottom paint took me two days to do myself (no help from anyone else) from start to finish. I scraped all the growth off, sanded areas smooth where a layer of paint had flaked off, etc. Painted one heavy coat on the bottom, 2 coats around waterline, transom, and running gear. Total cost: 3 gallons paint @ $229/gallon, one roller tray, 2 rollers, few brushes, coverall suit, tape, etc. Comes out to right aroud $800. Pay someone and you can easily triple that number for a job that definitely wouldn't be as good as what you do to your boat.

Topside paint is a tough one...but like anything else, if you roll and tip yourself, it's a huge savings. I rolled and tipped my entire hull, 3 coats. Let me tell you it wasn't fun, but it looks professional...and I'm proud of it! Total cost was approx $1000 in paint, and countless hours sanding, fairing, sanding, etc. Had I taken to get it sprayed, figure $750-1000 per foot from what I have been quoted in the past.

Jason


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[J's Dream]

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[MikeP]

Well, this has been discussed many, many times here. The general view is that it costs roughly 10% of the purchase price per year to maintain the boat. Go here to see an professional view of all this: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/usedboats.htm

In fact, if you are unfamiliar with Pascoe, read all of his articles related to buying/maintanance.

Now as stated, the REALITY side of all this is heavily influenced by how much work you are willing/wanting to do yourself. I would say that based on my personal experience with a 53MY is that the "average" cost of 10% per year for maintanance could easily be cut to 1/4 of thator less if you do ALL your own work. Most of the maint costs is labor. Here's a good example - winterizing in my previous marina (LI, NY) had a list of costs if performed by the mechanic. One of them was for winterizing faucets/sinks: $150 EACH. You can winterize the entire water system - sinks/faucets/heads - AND the engine/genny water systems, for that amount (or less) on a 53MY if you do it yourself. This is true of virtually anything you do yourself with resulting savings.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Another factor is where you plan to keep the boat. If you are in the north, you have winter costs like winterization and dry storage. If in the south, you have year round dockage and more bottom maintenance. You may also have more paint and varnish maintenance in the south. Some areas have very high labor rates such as the Lauderdale area, while some have relatively low rates like Canada and some parts of Michigan. For example, I just had my bottom painted with one coat of VC17 at the yard. Total bill was about $800 for a 53MY. You won't have it done for that anywhere in the south.

If you buy a boat that is in really great shape it will save you money in the long run. Regular maintenance is not that bad. It's the surprises that get you and no matter how good the boat appears on the surface, you WILL have some surprises. An engine overhaul or rotted coring are just that kind of problem that you probably cannot fix yourself, but you also can't put off until next year. You'll need to have a "reserve" to draw upon just in case something like this pops up.

Many people make the mistake of buying the biggest boat that they can afford without budgeting for the "what-ifs". An old boat with no warranty can be a great bargain but it also can be a great expense. There is risk involved, but your risk is much less with a well maintained Hatteras than with just about any other boat of the same age and size. Take your time and look at many examples of the model that you are interested in to familiarize yourself with build. The more you view, the more things you will see that will tell you if you have found the right boat.

 

[Boatsb]

If you look at the amount of use many people get ( about 200 hours ) and the number of systems to be maintained for the season I would estimate a 40-50 foot boat could cost between $10-20K in maintenance and repairs if you use it. Take that number as the cost of having the work done. If you do the labor materials may be closer to 25% of that.

 

[spartonboat1]

After:

OMG, she looks great. The paint job looks excellente'. What paint did you use topsides?

 

[J's Dream]

OMG, she looks great. The paint job looks excellente'. What paint did you use topsides?

Thanks, she's a work in progress. I used Signature paint (Fabula Paint) out of Port Salerno, FL. http://www.signaturefinish.com/ The PO gave her years of neglect, and it has taken me so far two and a half years to get her where she is now. More to come in the next few weeks.

 

[spartonboat1]

I
If when we sell our silverton we go the hatteras route, we'd most likely be looking for either 53MY or 58YF. ?

You will be stunned by the heft and solidity, and the commercial grade build quality (most of the time) if you jump from a Silverton to a Hatt. It has to be experienced; and I am speaking as owner of a smaller boat, a 43'MY. The first time you pull on the mooring line at a dock to pull a 53' in, you'll know what I mean- massive (safe).

I know a party who went the other way going from a Hatt 40+ MY to a similar size Silverton, when he got a "deal" on a new, but year or so old boat at a marina. He immediately felt that he was blown around much more and in less than a couple years was trying to sell. Yes, its beautiful close up in terms of the white paint and is curvy, but somehow seemed to have less "presence".

The 53 & 58 MY/YF are very large craft with complex systems. After 10 years as a Hatt owner, if I could get a current owner of a 53 or 58 to look at a prospective boat for purchase, I'll bet in an hour they could point out the good/bad/ugly pretty quickly with a practiced eye.

Re: "what do you all see as your "typical" annual ownership costs associated with owning a 30 year old motoryacht/yachtfish?"
1) Acquisition Cost- what you pay to buy it,
2) Baseline Cost- your outlay to baseline all systems and have the repairs performed identified by your bad attitude surveyor, that found lotsa' stuff, and which you factored into your purchase offer (you will factor that in, I assume),
3) Annual Costs- you own a vessel already, so the annual outlays are similar- slip fees, haul and store off-season, fuel, and the oil, winterizing, bottom paint work. Take into account the increased vessel size.
4) The 30 year old boat factor- aye, there's the rub. If never replaced (documented?) little pumps (bilge, etc), pump switches, genset(s), holding tanks and toilet items, windlasses, A/C units, batteries, engine mounts, cutlass bearings for prop shafts and rudder shafts, through hulls, leaking windows, weakened circuit breakers. Labors of love all.
5) General rule of thumb seen here- 4 weeks working on it, 1 week using it.
6) Depreciation- yes, that is an annual cost! The Hatt- pretty low; for years the 53's never went down in nominal value. Now they are priced very nicely. The new, sleek, Silverton (sorry, no insult intended), SeaRay, etc., pretty darn high...maybe as high as $100k's/year.

Hope I wasn't rude.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Our Hat is 22 years old. As a mechanic, I knew that all systems need to be checked, cleaned, and replaced or repaired. I have finally checked everything. The last items were the little PAR blowers. One of these is for galley exhaust and the other is in the head. Each is located behind a panel in a cabinet. A real tough access. Each had enough spider nests to seriously impede airflow. One had the cup shaped squirel cage blades filled with whatever. It was just batting the air around. I cleaned everything including the hoses and re-installed. I use that example because nothing can work well for 20 years withou needing some service. Those blowers are not junk. They are a typical example of Hatteras selecting the best available parts to install in their boats. That is a big part of the reason that we can keep them going, but you do need to service these things.
I always say that maintaining a large boat is like maintaining 2 trucks, a house, and a boat. Then, of course, there is the gen-set.

 

[MikeP]

Maynard makes a good point - there are a LOT of systems on these boats, far more than a house has and they need maintainance. IMHO, it is better to buy a boat in the best condition you can find for that reason - it is a LOT easier to maintain something than it is to fix it - cheaper too.

Obviously the things that keep the boat floating and make it go are the items that get all the publicity. True, if it won't float and/or it won't go, it's of no value as a boat but once that stuff is in order, they are really pretty low maintainance barring an accident. The OTHER stuff - which makes you comfortable - becomes the primary maintainance issues. Unless you are into camping, and I am NOT, all this other stuff has to work or it's kind of miserable.

Obviously the radio(s) and nav equipment has to be working. There are multiple air conditioning units (4 on our 53), several water pumps, various blowers (6 on our boat that I can think of) an anchor windlass, a dingy davit, electrical of at least 3 voltages and many of these boats have 4 due to additions in the past - 240VAC, 120VAC, 32VDC, 12VDC (added). Then there are the heads/pumps - 3 on a 53MY - the various galley appliances, the washer/dryer, etc, etc, etc. All this stuff has to work. Well, I suppose it all doesn't HAVE to but then we are headed toward camping!

My point is that there are a lot of items to maintain. When we were first looking at 53MYs we started out with the idea that we'd buy a boat in reasonable but not perfect (no such thing, really) condition. Since I figured I'd do all the work we would save a bunch of money overall. Yeah - maybe but TIME is the problem. I remember going through a 53 in Peekskill NY that looked reasonably good. As we went through we noted items we saw that would need work - admittedly some of it cosmetic (all lower-level interior wood was covered with mirror tile). I'd say, "Yes, I can fix/change that." at the end of our tour, we looked at the list and the Admiral asked how long it would take to fix everything so the boat would be like we wanted it. I started laughing and said, "Maybe 10 years!" We left and changed the parameters for what condition we were looking for to the best condition we could possibly afford. Yes, our purchase price ended up being nearly 75K higher than the range we were initially shopping but we got a far better boat in every respect and it was the best 75k we ever spent!

It is also important to assess the difference between you HAVING to work on the boat and WANTING to work on the boat. I enjoy doing every aspect of the boat's work and would not consider having someone else do it. True, there are a few exceptions, we just had a gentleman make new countertops for the back deck cabinets and we've had the canvass guy make new items. But other than hauling/painting the bottom, those two items are the only things that have been done on our boat by others. But if you don't like doing this stuff, you won't do it. That means the systems degrade OR you pay money for others to do it and also wonder if they did it right; the standard answer will be, "probably NOT." That's a whole different issue and there are plenty of scary stories of poor mechanic work...and, admittedly, some good ones too.

One huge advantage for doing as much as possible yourself (and learning how if you don't already know) is that after a while you become THOROUGHLY familiar with every system on the boat. To me this is really valuable. Is your mechanic going to be on the boat when you are out and something quits? The piece of mind that goes with really knowing your boat is, as they say, priceless!

In any case, good luck - these are wonderful boats!

 

[akintosyali]

My boat is 43 years old. So when you say older boat, what is your definition?
Regarding the purchase price, it is a very subjective number. I bought mine in "junk-as-is" shape, it was sitting on blocks for the last 15 years. I have spent more than twice the purchase amount to update the boat, including engine work, interior decorations, all new floors, appliances, top and bottom paint, electronics, etc, etc. I can easily say that there are now less than a handfull of things I did not replace on the boat!

So if definition of maintenance excludes morring fees, and only gas/oil/filter cost, I say it is about $100.ft. If you want to include storage and morring, add another $100. Replcement cost of of things would be on top of this.

PS: If I were you, I'd either make great friends with someone that has a boat and help him out often, or buy the smallest boat you can live with -unlike me-buying the biggest boat I could afford at the time.

 

[Pascal]

"After 10 years as a Hatt owner, if I could get a current owner of a 53 or 58 to look at a prospective boat for purchase, I'll bet in an hour they could point out the good/bad/ugly pretty quickly with a practiced eye."

i did jsut that last week for a friend, shopping in the 60 to 70 foot range, 2001 and newer. My neck still hurt from shaking my head so much looking at the dumbest mistakes a boat builder can make.

My favorite was a transom locker, with no latch (just $0.50 plastic catch) and no gasket with the top of the locker open into the lazzarette. yes, open into the lazzarette! How seaworthy is that? same flaw on 3 boats from the same taiwan builder (different years)

Or shore power plugs in an unsealed compartment on the front of a portuguese bridge (no latch, no gasket, just a piece of plastic hinged at the top. On the backside, you could see the corrosion on the back of the shorepower plugs, in a locker, again no gaskets and just the same $0.40 plastic catch.... and the wires flapping around in the locker.

the list goes on... how about a cockpit hatch, that latches from the inside only. Seems like no big deal since you can secure the dogs from the lazarette and then exit thru a water tight door into the ER and then another watertight door forward. But what happens if you hit a log and rip a rudder? lazzarette fills with water and the only access is from the engine room, letting thousands of gallons in your ER!

asking price... $1.5M

Really makes you appreciate our old hatts.

 

[Woodsong]

Thanks for the input all. We don't know what we are going to buy if/when the silverton sells. The silverton meets our needs great for what we use it for currently. But, we are looking at different ways we want to boat with different goals and the classic lines of the older hatts always draw us in. But that love of classic lines could get diminished by a "surprise" like a $50k engine rebuild, $30k new paint topsides, etc. Little stuff like bilge pumps or this or that is no biggie...it's the oh no that's gonna cost $50k type thing!

Obviously that all gets down to a proper review of a potenial purchase, engine survey, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Paul45c]

To help you out on some of the costs for major repairs, you can budget anywhere between $2k and $3k per cylinder on DDs for majors, but occasionally with motors in really poor shape that can climb higher.

Paint costs vary pretty widely by geographical area, but I'd say the median cost on that might be around $1k/linear foot. You won't be far wrong either way, anyhow.

A full set of new batteries can run you up over $2500. A/C compressors will go for somewhere around $1200-2000 per, depending on size, if I remember correctly.

All the other miscellaneous and near- constant items to fix that have been cited can usually be handled by somebody making around $30-50/hr (again, depending on region) if you choose not to do it yourself. Most of them are not big jobs, but there can be periods where it seems like the list of things to fix can be pretty daunting.

But in the end that near-perfect day out on the ocean when the boat is just purring along is priceless, so it's all worth it at the end.

 

[Trojan]

When looking at older boats. You also need to think about insurance, where its going to be used and for what.

Bill