Wear & Tear or Insurance Claim

[MicroKap]

I have a coolant leak on a couple of cylinders on my 1271TIs. We pulled the valve covers and pressurized the fresh water cooling system and looked for leaks around the injectors and have found two so far. We took the injectors out of the two suspect cylinders and peered down the hole of the "insert" where the injector sits. It appears that the insert has split in the wall and coolant is leaking in from the side of the insert. My mechanic recommends taking off the head and replacing all of the "inserts" in the head. My mechanic said that it doesn't look original. It only seems to appear in two cylinders.

I'm not sure how long this has been going on. I became aware of this issue when I was winterizing and took oil samples prior to changing the oil for the winter layup. Oil survey came back with high level of coolant. The oil level on the dipstick hadn't looked low, so any "burnt or leaking" oil may have been replaced with coolant. It just looked like chocolate milk.

Is this a regular wear item (I pay for fix) where the coolant is leaking into the injector sleeve or is this something that is defective (insurance claim). The injectors that we pulled did not show any carbon buildup near the tip, however, he recommended having them tested because of normal heavy smoke on startup. The engine has over 3,000 hours. I am the 4th or 5th owner and don't know if/when the engine ever had an overhaul, but since my mechanic said that it didn't look original as well as the fuel lines had the o-rings as opposed to flared fittings, that someone had worked on this engine and had done some replacement.

My mechanic stated that we do just the head that shows the leaks, but it's not necessary to do any more at this point.

Any comments would be appreciated.

 

[Passages]

I don't know how this could be covered by insurance unless you have a some type of service contract on your engines.

Insurance is typically looking for "Sudden and Accidental" as a claim qualifier.

 

[MikeP]

I have never heard of insurance - or at least any insurance that I have ever had - covering something like that but then again, I'm no insurance expert. I was under the impression that insurance covered damage caused by accidents while warranties, if any exist, cover mechanical failures for some limited period.

In any case, it seems like the policy should state the specifics or, if not, an adjuster from the company could tell you.

 

[Canuck Dennis]

This is not an unusual happening on 12 v 71's , the carbon gets between the sleeve and the injector , finally splits the sleeve and bingo, you may bend a rod, I had it happen on one of 12's.

Yes pull the head replace the sleeves and do the valves, use a magnifying glass to check ALL your injector sleeves, both mains, if an injector is difficult to remove, the carbon is probably starting to build up, remove it very carefully as the sleeve can "break loose" and then the head has to come off.

I recheck mine every spring by removing the valve covers and checking around the top of the sleeve for any traces of carbon, better than nothing as a precaution. Low rpm's will contribute to this event, though some feel repropping to work the engine slower is a good idea. These engines are full mechanical and ideal operating is 1750 rpm.

Just my 2c

 

[MicroKap]

I wasn't sure if insurance would cover this sort of thing. It's just that my mechanic had said that he'd never seen the inserts leak in the location they did. He said that usually either the top isn't seated properly in the hole or the bottom gets a crack and carbon forms on the lower portion of the injector as the combustion in the cylinder forces the pressure beyond the exposed tip of the injector. These inserts have split about a 1/3 of the way up the insert as best as we can tell from looking under just 7 psi of pressure on the cooling system. Exclusions from the insurer include wear and tear, gradual deterioration, weathering, etc., however how does an insert have wear and tear or deterioration that creates this type of problem? I know that my mechanic had told me that if it were a crankshaft for example that was bent, it may be covered by insurance as it's not a normal wear and tear part.

Can anyone give me an idea of what could happen from this point if not resolved immediately (upon unwinterizing)? I know I can't start this engine until everything is retorqued correctly anyway, but I was just looking for a description in stages so I can see how bad things can get from here. I just know my engine smokes heavily upon startup. Once warm, no sign of smoke. Is there any relation between the coolant leak and damage that may have been caused from it or is it just bad compression or bad injectors?

Thank you for your replies.

 

[SeaEric]

This can be part of hull coverage and is called "latent defect". It covers consequences of components that fail due to manufacturing issues. A customer of mine collected from his insurance company a few years back when one of his 10 cyl MAN's melted down. MAN admitted the defect and helped out with parts and the insurance company paid the labor. If you have that particular coverage on your boat policy it can come in handy.

 

[Will]

I'll have to side with those saying this problem is not covered by insurance. You should also consider over hauling both heads rather than just one. The labor to remove and replace isn't that much more since you've already pulled the blower, governor, etc anyway. More importantly, with that many hours, a rebuilt head and the old head would be imbalanced as far as power output is concerned. While the heads are off, a close inspection may indicate that piston, liners, etc. are hurting too. There is no way to get around a tired engine other than biting the bullet and doing it right.
Will

 

[MicroKap]

Exclusions:
"the cost of replacing or repairing any item having a latent defect that causes damage to your insured property, however, resulting damage would be covered".

What does this mean in this scenario?

 

[Sparky1]

I believe that means (for example) if your engine threw a rod through the side of the boat, they'd fix the hole in the boat, but not your engine.

 

[MikeP]

That's quite similar to some home insurance policies. For example, if a water pipe in the house bursts and ruins a wall and a carpet, the insurance will pay for the DAMAGE caused - replacement/repair/cleaning/painting of the wall and carpet. They will not pay for the pipe repair.

So I would think that if the engine blew up/whatever, and flooded the boat with fuel/oil/antifreeze and punched a hole in the hull with a connecting rod, insurance would cover all the damage the blow-up caused but none of the actual repair of the engine itself.

 

[Sparky1]

Beat you by half a second.

 

[saltshaker]

Larry,

Talk to David Tarab. He just had one engine replaced with a long block due to a latent defect. Insurance paid for everything except the defective part. Years ago I had a car fire due to a defective AC compressor. Insurance paid for everything except the AC compressor. If I understand this correctly, your insurance won't pay for the cost to replace the defective inserts, but would pay for the subsequent damage to the engine. Give me a call if you need any help.

 

[Canuck Dennis]

This problem can also be caused by a poor re-installation of injectors, when the injectors are removed, the sleeve must be honed very carefully and thoroughly "washed" to ensure proper sealing between injector and sleeve, improper torque setting can contribute to early failure also.
If it could be proven that the previous re-and re was un professional, the ins co, may, go after that company, I repeat, may, at their option.

I had an injector tip failure after a re- and re by prof. co. and I called my ins co as I wanted to be sure if the tip went thro the piston top I would be covered, they sent out Detroit Diesel who inspected and stated all was OK, if their had of been a propblem the is co would have pd to fix and gone after the original installers.

 

[Sparky1]

Larry,

Talk to David Tarab. He just had one engine replaced with a long block due to a latent defect. Insurance paid for everything except the defective part. Years ago I had a car fire due to a defective AC compressor. Insurance paid for everything except the AC compressor. If I understand this correctly, your insurance won't pay for the cost to replace the defective inserts, but would pay for the subsequent damage to the engine. Give me a call if you need any help.

I would certainly like to know who the insurance company was who paid that claim on the boat engine. As for the compressor deal, the fire would be covered by your insurance regardless of the cause.

Not being sarcastic, but when I took my 58 back to TN, I stopped in at Dog River Marina and spoke with Sonny Middleton about my 12V71N. He too spoke of customers having had their insurance take care of such problems as we are speaking of here. Specifically, my blown engine was the result of a failure of the oil line. He seemed to think my insurance company would cover the subsequent damage caused by the oil line, but they would not cover the oil line itself. Needless to say, my hopes were high, but deep down I knew better. State Farm denied the claim.

 

[habanero]

Latent defect means in the previous example that they wound not pay for the rod, but pay for the damage caused to the engine by the rod. Call your insurance company for further details. I'm sure this would be covered. Now realize the insurance companies job is to deny,deny,deny. If you fought long and hard you would eventually get most of it paid through the insurance.

 

[Finalee]

Larry I think the short answer to the question is no.

 

[Bugsy]

Incredible!

Everyone makes fun of lawyers...but first chance they get----everybody is one!

 

[Capt K]

Incredible!

Everyone makes fun of lawyers...but first chance they get----everybody is one!

Yeah, I've got to agree. I have been in the insurance biz for over twenty five years and this would be a REAL stretch with any normal yacht policy unless the mechanical defect caused damage to the vessel such as causing a fire, etc.

I'm not saying this type of coverage is non-existent, but not usual at all.

K

 

[Anderson Don]

laten defect means that if a defective part fails the insurance company would pay to repair or replace all damage with the exception of the part that failed. Crankshaft breaks destroys engine the company will pay. The crankshaft is excluded and would have to be sent to a metal specilist to see if it had a casting defect if so claim paid. Simple not always its hard to prove sometimes and not all marine policies cover laten defect.

 

[Vincentc]

The advice given had been kind and thoughtful; however keep in mind that claim decisions are dependent upon all the wording of the particular insurance policy and a your specific facts. The wording of the policy controls and application will depend upon a credible interpretation of the facts.

There are times that payable claims are denied and vice versa. Anecdotal information may give you a feel for things, but you may be feeling in the dark.

You may want to hire a lawyer with expertise in the field to review your policy; however, the other variable is an expert interpretation of the cause of the loss. Both inquiries may have significant costs.

Regards,
Vincent