Water seeping from bottom of keel

[38 HAT]

I was at my boat this weekend which has been on land in winter storage since Oct. While cleaning my running gear I noticed on the side of the keel about an 1/2" up from the bottom water was very slowly seeping out. I could see no damage so I popped a piece of bottom paint off where the leak was coming from. I still couldn't see any damage it looked like it was seeping through the fiberglass. I only have water in my center bilge from Ac con descent all others are always dry. I am wondering whether it came in where it is coming out or if it is coming in from the bilge and the water froze and created a way out trough the fiber glass. Also the boat goes back in the water 3rd week in April I would appreciate any ideas on what to do.

 

[Boatsb]

Strip the paint off the keel. Its coming from somewhere and can run behind paint a bit. These keels are known for cracks if hauled and blocked wrong. I've repaired quite a few over the years.

 

[johnjen50]

What about a failing barrier coat? If the barrier coat had a breach in it the water may be seeping through into the keel in the summer and making its way out now. I had a spot like that where I noticed water seeping into the bilge with no discernible entry point so I stripped it down, all around the area giving a wide berth, and reapplied barrier coat and then bottom paint and the seeping stopped.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Most likely water inside the hollow keel was outside the hollow keel first. Strip all the paint off, like he said, and you may very well find out where. It's more likely it came from outside the boat than inside the boat. Regardless, you will need to dry it thoroughly before repairing it. And I wouldn't put it back in the water without fixing it.

 

[bobk]

It is probably more than failing barrier coat. Barrier coat is to simply stop osmotic blistering, not to waterproof a bottom. X2 on stripping to locate the issue. It could be simply a crack, or as I found on my trawler, it could be dry laminate due to a layup issue. Definitely get the water out. It might make sense to drill a small hole down low to allow it out faster. If the laminate is dry, you might try rinsing out minerals with fresh water, drying with a shop vac and heat lamp for a few hours and then injecting a fluid epoxy resin (100% solids, no thinners) into several areas. Allow to cure and then rebuild as necessary.
In my case, the repair was still holding 15 years later and may still be.
Bobk

PS, don't forget to plug the hole if you go that route.

 

[jim rosenthal]

If there is water in the keel, and it sounds like there is, you will need to dry the keel from the inside out. The best way I found to do this was drill some large holes in the side of the keel, about 1", at the bow and stern ends, and use a shop vacuum to suck air through it for a few days. (yes, it drives everyone nuts around you, but it does work) When the keel is good and dry, you can plug the holes with FRP plugs and thickened epoxy resin. I had to laminate my own FRP board for this, but now you can buy a piece of pressure-laminated FRP board with epoxy resin, which is much easier. Then fair the plugged area, and laminate multiple layers of fiberglass cloth on, with epoxy resin, clamping it under low pressure with peel-ply to help remove the clamps etc. Then sand and apply barrier coat and while that is still tacky, bottom paint. That will get you a good repair which will hold up. Mine has been in there twenty years I think. My boat had probably been grounded, and was repaired with Bondo, I was lucky she didn't sink with that sort of crap in the keel.

 

[Boatsb]

If there is water in the keel, and it sounds like there is, you will need to dry the keel from the inside out. The best way I found to do this was drill some large holes in the side of the keel, about 1", at the bow and stern ends, and use a shop vacuum to suck air through it for a few days. (yes, it drives everyone nuts around you, but it does work) When the keel is good and dry, you can plug the holes with FRP plugs and thickened epoxy resin. I had to laminate my own FRP board for this, but now you can buy a piece of pressure-laminated FRP board with epoxy resin, which is much easier. Then fair the plugged area, and laminate multiple layers of fiberglass cloth on, with epoxy resin, clamping it under low pressure with peel-ply to help remove the clamps etc. Then sand and apply barrier coat and while that is still tacky, bottom paint. That will get you a good repair which will hold up. Mine has been in there twenty years I think. My boat had probably been grounded, and was repaired with Bondo, I was lucky she didn't sink with that sort of crap in the keel.

A proper patch has a 10 or 12 to 1 taper. A plug is not the best fix. I've done many for CG inspection and they have a very specific way that has to be followed.

 

[Boatsb]

Thanks for the replies, My marina will never allow me to run a wet vac 24/7 for any length of time so what is worse case if I address this next fall and it can dry all winter layup?

Worst case is the boat sinks. You need to find out what it is and how bad the damage is before assessing the problem.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Get a quiet one, like a Fein Turbo, and run it a few hours a day while you're there. It will take longer, but it WILL dry out.

Yes, the keel is separate and all, but you don't want the interior of your boat open to the ocean. It's not a good idea.

 

[johnjen50]

What type of epoxy resin is used on these hulls? West be ok to use? I remember reading about the differences between vinylester resins and others, so am curious about what is right for our boats.

 

[Cricket]

We've used a ton of West System over the years without a failure for repairs, sealing, and fairing. West mostly because we're familiar with it and you can get it just about everywhere. There are plenty of other good brands of epoxy also to use. For us epoxy is the way to go for repairs because of the adhesion properties compared to polyester and vinylester.

 

[Boatsb]

Get a quiet one, like a Fein Turbo, and run it a few hours a day while you're there. It will take longer, but it WILL dry out.

Yes, the keel is separate and all, but you don't want the interior of your boat open to the ocean. It's not a good idea.

The keel is not separate. Its laid up and filled with foam them glassed over inside but many will tell you the glass can have holes inside and fill with stinky bilge water.

 

[Cricket]

How about a photo? I've had plenty of these little wet spots over years in the keel area and every time they ended up being moisture built up in a small void in the laminate, not puffed up blisters. Each time we ground out the area, put some heat on it if needed, and patched with epoxy and cloth, not just thickened epoxy. Sometimes we would end up with a patch that's maybe 12" by completion. Never have had one fail, and we're now in our 31st year.

 

[bobk]

The keel is not separate. Its laid up and filled with foam them glassed over inside but many will tell you the glass can have holes inside and fill with stinky bilge water.

The water can leak out through what we call 'dry areas' in the laminate. If you can picture the molds, the deep part of the keel area is a little difficult to saturate with resin and if it is not done right, will potentially lead to a leak. This is not too unusual on Taiwan deep keel trawlers. Get a moisture meter. Remove the paint in the area of concern and find the bad spot. The moisture meter can show you the extent of the problem. Grind it back and apply heat from a couple of heat lamps and use a small fan and it should get dry pretty fast. If the keel is full of water, bore holes into the bottom and drain it. To make the repair of the holes simple, just drill 3/16" holes and suck the water out. These holes can be repaired by tapping and inserting 1/4" bolts (316L) with caulk. Been there, done that and all was well 20 years later.

As far as vinyl ester vs. epoxy, they are quite similar in properties, BUT if there is any possibility of moisture remaining as there would be in this case, use an epoxy resin instead and the appropriate reinforcing fiber.

Bobk

 

[rsmith]

I don't mean to be a pain in the ass but!!!, I have a good idea how to repair and with the drying issue it seems like it will take months. I live in the north east and the boat is on land for six months, plenty of time to let the keel dry out before the repair. That being said I am in a 800 slip marina with a pre-arranged launch date of April 8 and if I am not ready to be launched on that date I will then go to the end of the launch schedule usually around Memorial day. At this time I will not have time to make the repair correctly, so I am asking if I wait until after the season to make the repair what would be the most reasonable thing that would happen if anything to the boat. I will only add if people are putting in drain plugs to drain water for winter layup that water is in the keel all season right?

I'd wait till you can let it sit all winter and dry.im sure this didn't just happen and has probably been like that for a while

 

[jim rosenthal]

Well, now you have several ideas on how to do this.

In the case of my boat, I drilled two 1" holes in the side of the keel, at opposite ends. I hooked up the shop vac and ran it for a few days. At the end of that time, enough air had gone through that it was nice and dry. Then I repaired it as I outlined. It didn't take me a long time and the repair is been in there for ages- also, two other shops looked at the repair years later, because it got a blister job a few years after that, and then was looked at again when it was in Slane Marine for new engines- so it's held up fine.

What you have there is unlikely to sink the boat. It would just bother me to have it there and not fixed, until I got it repaired.

 

[Boatsb]

We had a 36 start taking water on during a delivery. The patch from a PO had failed. It was not noticed at the survey 2 months previous. Id look closer at what the problem is before I say wait until next year.