Wake Zones

[garyd]

Here in S.W. Florida most of the intercoastal is 25 MPH wake zones. Although one is responsible for their wake it is time to change that rule.

Time and time again as we are cruising down the intercoastal we see dangerous activities by dumb boaters. And witht that present rule that dumb act that hurts someone could be blamed on a boats passing wake.

We need to push through a new rule that states the captain of his ship is responsible for its safety and the safety of the crew and passangers.

We were cruising south down the intercoastal just south of Clearwater when a 50+ Carver eased into the intercoastal. It was a weekend the captain of the Carver instantly took it upon himself to yell and scream at every boat telling them to slow down. He was telling everyone they were number one etc. etc. He was in the intercoastal clearly marked as a 25 MPH zone.

I almost always cruise at 25 wherever I can in the intercoastal to keep it a 25MPH zone. There has already been many attempts at making the entire intercoast NO WAKE. We as boaters can't allow that, we need to keep them at bay. But they have the "you are responsible for your wake rule" to throw a blanket over the larger boats just waiting to nail you for any ripple in the water.

One time we came back up the intercoastal on a very windy nasty day. Passed about 20 boats one way or the other. These boats were real boaters most were laughing and screeching as they jumped the wake or splashed over it.

About a month later on a nice day same trip there were about 50 boats full of idiots. Most had a big meesage on the side biilbob's boat rentals. I would say about 50% of these boats were doing something stupid.

Then of course there is sailboaters. Nothing against the real sailors as I usually wave and they wave back. But the bad sailors that are screaming at you to slow down while they are under sail in the channel (I believe that's illegal) I just cruise past and chuckle. My son likes to look back and see what kind of roller coaster ride they get. If theyt attempt to move over I attempt to minimize the wake.

If it says 25 go 25 or else one day it's going to say NO WAKE.

Have fun using your boat

 

[Rickysa]

Funny thing about NW zones here in NC is that nobody really knows where they all are, meaning you can't get a map of them...although they are very happy to enforce when they get the urge. Kinda like a highway patrolman handing out tickets when no speed limit is posted.

It seems everybody with a dock on the ICW has a "NO WAKE" sign posted...if I'm in the ditch alone and all boats are on lifts (ie, no way am I going to cause damage), how do I know if the NW sign is ligit?

Since NW zones are legislated, there locations are buried in legal minutes, and one (very nice/patient) lady is trying to organize things somewhat.

Frustrating.

 

[Pascal]

well, first show me the "rule" that say that you are responsible for your wake.

good luck finding it... frankly, i often wish there was such a rule but short of being cited for negligence or reckless operation... or being sued... afaik there is no such rule.

there is no such rule about sailing in a channel... it's perfectly legal.. check the ROR !!!

one rule that exist is that the captain of a vessel is responsible for the safety of his passengers... that one is hadly new...

that said, it's all courtesy and common sense. i don't give a .... about what the sign says, as most of those signs have nothing to do with safety but which homeowner group is the loudest ...

there are a few unrestricted section of ICW between FTL and MIA which are very narrow, with concrete seawall and un restricted. you can recognize the sunday jerks when they get on plane in those section and don't care about others. a large boat will create a 3' wake that will bouce off the walls creating not just uncomfortable conditions but downright dangerous.

obnoxious "it's 25 I'm going 25 even if i cause a 4' wake in a narrrow bulkhead lined channel" is what will cause the whole ICW to become one big NWZ...

i guess when you're in the ICW, you never have people down below getting a drink or something who could get injured if a large wake come their way...

it's all about common sense and courtesy, unfortunately driving a larger boat comes with the need to be responsible. sometimes, you need to slow dow... if you dont' want to... stay outside.

 

[Capt.Erich]

"under sail in the channel (I believe that's illegal)"

To the best of knowlege it isn't illegal.

Before I got into driving large power boats, I had owned several sail boats and done a lot of ocean racing, deliveries and cruising. I think that boating and being on the water is one of the last bastions of true Darwinism. If you are stupid enough to attempt to sail your 25' day sailor though the wake of a container ship in a tight channel then you and your offspring may not survive to reproduce... Or... you my survive and adapt your boating skills to avoid large motorvessels that pitch a wake big enough to swallow your little boat.

I find it intersting that Big Brother has yet to regulate the operation of any water craft with the exception of a few basic rules that are not strictly enforced. Any fool with enough credit can go the his local Sea Ray dealer and purchase the biggest and fastest and go out and reak havock on the ICW in less than 24 hours.

I too have been frustrated when... on deliveries and stuck doing the ditch due to weather and having to putt putt along due to the risk of swamping some idiots in a john boat that are tied up to an ATON fishing... or trying to get some sail boat to slow down for an easy pass and they have no idea what I'm talking about and get pissed when I roll by them and wake them with a small 3' wake... Or when they don't understand that an 80' MY draws more than they (let's not even talk about tonnage)... Or when the PWC idiots get mad when I come to a dead stop until they leave because one of them insists on cutting so close to my bow that I can't even see him... I'll stop now.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[garyd]

Pacal loved your response, shows how people inside the same sport differ.

The reason for sail boats not sailing in the channel is safety. Their sails blanket their vision. I was told by a bunch of sailors that is the rule. I've been told by everyone over and over since day one that your responsible for your wake.

I believe both of these are facts although I have not gone and done the research to find the exact page by paragraph dot paragraph.

On this side of the state the main argument they use to get a NWZ is " see they don't go fast in this stretch anyway". We need to keep pushing the limits. My answer to your go outside is the same if you don't like the wakes go outside. Or don't go boating in that area. If someone is going dead slow in the middle of a 25 mph zone smacke dab in the middle and has the admiral cooking dinner then I WOULD SAY THEY ARE THE IRRESPONSIBLE CAPTAIN. NOT SOMEONE THAT IS DOING 25 IN THE 25 ZONE.

I know you have a different take and mine might not suite you, yours may not suite me but we all need to work together to get this issue smoothed out. Telling all boats to go slow except offshore is not acceptable to me.

As far as homeowners go. They bought the house along the ICW with it showing a 25 mph wake zone they need to be reponsible for their seawall. Not the boats passing by the seawall in the ICW going the speedlimit.

Have fun boating

 

[ThirdHatt]

Pascal, VERY well said. I think that our dear friend GaryD is so busy "having fun boating" in his hot-rod 41C that displacement speeds are not enough fun for he and his son. I can only imagine what the wake of a 41' Hatteras looks like at 25mph! I think once your boat is much over 30 ft there is alot more to think about in a no wake zone than blindly looking at where the zone begins and ends. Big boats = Big Responsibility, PERIOD! If you don't like it, simply run outside or buy a small (<30') runabout to cruise the ICW.

 

[ThirdHatt]

GaryD, I don't think Pascal suggested all boats go slow except offshore. Just big boats who immediately and blindly go 25 simply because the sign says 25. Remember, that is the MAXIMUM speed, NOT the MINIMUM! The signs do not say "IMMEDIATELY ACCELERATE TO MAX SPEED AND HOLD".

I am one of the property owners on a waterway where there are several no wake zones. My property is situated where there is merely a 36mph restriction. Many of my friends say that I should fight to have one at my property, or just put up a no wake sign. I REFUSE! Like GaryD said, if you buy property in a wake zone, it is your responsibility to build an appropriate seawall and tie your boats well. I built a commercial-grade seawall out of 3/8" steel sheetpile, sandblasted and sprayed with two 8-mil coats of epoxy, as per USCG requirements. I installed class B oversized pilings and I keep one line on EVERY cleat of my boat when at rest. Bow and stern lines are doubled up. I do not yell at the fools that blow by on plane in 40' boats (usually Sea Ray's, NEVER a Hatteras!). I just don't wave. Luckily, around here most big boat owners know how to be COURTEOUS and slow down by choice. No, they do not have to, but they usually do out of respect. That's what I like to practice, RESPECT for fellow boaters.

Food for thought.

 

[garyd]

Thirdhatt LOL. You're making assumptions. I've never got a ticket or been pulled over for operating recklessly. I've passed many a Marine patrolman and waved and they waved back.

Do not assume that I would ever operate my vessel in a reckless manner you would be dead wrong. Push the limits is necessary in our U.S.A. Else someone will come up with another you can't do that cause I think it's not right rule.

You are hearing the opposite of your opinion no need to start a liberal rant.

As I said to Pascal if you don't like it same response go outside. So in your minds it's O.K. to tell others to go outside but when they tell you the same you don't like it.

Don't slow down boys keep' em rolling.

Now having said that, if I was presented with a boater doing something very stupid. like 8 people in a bow rider 6 in the front with a small baby on board them showing about 2" of freeboard I will slow down. If a boat is in tow and I know they are in tow I slow down. If there is a situation that I see that my wake may actually hurt somebody I slow down.

Other than that if it is a 25 MPH zone I'm going to go 25 MPH. Thats not 100MPH were talking about its 25. Course I guess that's fast to some folks.

Love you guys. Have fun boating FAST or SLOW you can still have fun!

 

[Genesis]

Most states have a general no-wake law specifying that within 100' of shore is a no-wake zone, posted or not.

Private "no wake" signs mean nothing; they're nothing more than some landowner's hubris. You are responsible for your wake, however, a vessel that is underway or tied up on a navigable waterway is presumed to be seaworthy and "reasonable care" must be taken by the owner. There's a balance in all this; if you tie up to a dock with no fenders and such that your vessel can be bashed against the dock then your damage is not due to the wake but rather your own negligence.

I travel in the ICW around here when I have to, and for the most part, its ok. There are, however, enough people out there who have no clue and are outright dangerous on the water.

I do my best not to wake vessels tied up in the ditch. I also make every attempt to be courteous when overtaking. There are a lot of people that don't have their radios on, especially rag boaters. I've had more than one reply to my sound signal (which of course is the next resort when their VHF is off) with an upended middle finger. More than once I've been tempted to apply the law of gross displacement to such people.

I will personally fight any attempt to impose any sort of licensure or further regulatory requirement for being on the water. "The sea is so vast, and my boat is so small" applies even today, with all the traffic out there. You CAN get away from it; unlike the roads where you have narrow concrete ribbons that inexorably force you into "close quarters", even in the busiest conditions I've never seen anything that rivals rush-hour traffic in a car.

BTW there is no law prohibiting being underway with sails up on the ICW, and if a sailboat is doing so without the engine running they have navigational privilege just as they do on open water. Whether or not a sailboat can proceed under sail in a prudent manner is another issue entirely; in many cases they most certainly can.

 

[ThirdHatt]

I'm sorry, I am certainly not trying to start a liberal rant. (ME, LIBERAL? HA!) I was merely voicing an informed opinion, as your original post invited. Also, I did not mean to suggest that you operate your boat recklessly because I have no idea how you operate your boat.

I think blindly pushing the limits for fear of big brother taking your rights away is a bit close-minded, but that is just my opinion. There are many fellow boaters here who have differing opinions, no big deal and this is a fun medium to discuss and learn from each other. Remeber, we are all entitled to our own opinions.

GaryD what will you do when you finally step up to that big newer 60' Hatt convertible? Will you immediately throttle up to 25mph in the same zones no matter what is around you just because you can? See if the marine patrol waves back then. Hmmm.

P.S. On the water, 25mph in a 30mph boat is exactly the same as going 100mph in a 120mph car. Same percentage, so for your boat@25mph IS 100mph on the water! Just listen to those motors screaming.

 

[garyd]

I'm not sure about sailing in the ICW. I was always told sailing in the channel was illegal. I was thinking about the channel coming into the Manatee river. The other day a sailboat was in full sail heeled over 15 degrees sail blanketing their vision while trying to turn in the channel where it is only about 100' wide. I don't think that was very responsible, not legal from what I've been told.

Maybe we have a legal beagle that can shed some light on the legality of this issue.

Have fun boating

 

[garyd]

Thirdhatt. Last year we were up by Terra Verde. I was in the NWZ, but off to the west was a entrance from the Gulf of Mexico. A 60+ viking was rolling in on plane looked nice. I kept watching as his wake literally crested over the sea wall of the houses along the ICW in that area.

I don't know how I feel about that even to this day. As we approached that area all kinds of boats big and small Hatts and whatever were on plane. The mess it created was amazing. Like I said I'm not sure to this day how I feel about that situation.

The big viking was legal, was he pushing the limit or exceeding it. Hmmmmmm.

 

[Rickysa]

No legal beagle here, but the ROR says no prob w/ the sailboat

Interesting to find out that the "you are responsible for your wake" is really based on tort law...(at least in NC). Tough to prove it, I'd imagine, in court.

Rick

 

[ThirdHatt]

GaryD, you are absolutely right. I am glad you said about the big boats on plane that got your attention because it shows that even though you may feel comfortable doing this in your 41', you can see that 60' boats can cause a dangerous situation while still not being illegal. What your 41' boat does to a 20' boat is the same thing. Were they they pushing it? Probably so but you are right that they are within legal limits. It all goes back to responsibility.

 

[(Nobody You Know)]

There are some blowboaters who are truly appreciative when you slow down for a slow pass. Then, unfortunately, there are many others that hate you and your power vessel no matter how slow or how courteous you try to implement a pass. I could go on about their dysfunctional VHFs or remarkable ability to navigate the entire ICW on the wrong side but….ho,hum.

BTW, “No Wake” signs on private docks are ILLEGAL. This I know from a friend who is management level with the Corps of Engineers. A few years back at a gathering we discussed this issue. He advised that within a few months all dock owners on the ICW from north of Wilmington to Morehead City will be getting a notice pending fines. A couple of months later those signs were removed (most are now back, but that was several years ago).

I think it’s ludicrous that your guuuv fails to indicate “no wake zones” on charts. But I think I know the answer.

The “Rules of Navigation” cover just about every possible scenario for safe boat passage and collision prevention. However nothing beats a little common courtesy.

One of the reasons we went from a 28’er to the 40’ Hatteras we now enjoy is too provide us with a more “defense” from idiots and drunks in narrow channels jeopardizing or safety, comfort and enjoyment.

Not to be redundant (we tossed this around on a previous thread) but the only answer (UNFORTUNATELY) is mandatory boater education and certification (ie. more government).

 

[Rickysa]

I think it’s ludicrous that your guuuv fails to indicate “no wake zones” on charts. But I think I know the answer.

NC Wildlife Resources can issue a NW zone for "danger to public safety" only....not to protect property (boats etc.), or for habitat either.

Only the General Assembly can legislate a NW zone for whatever reason is brought before them...supposedly a new hire was to go back through all the GA paperwork and tease out all the legislated NW zones so they could be properly documented for boaters knowledge...as of today, the person hired has been assigned other duties

 

[Freestyle]

I cruise at displacement speeds on the West Coast Florida ICW and see GaryD from time to time. I can throw a big wake but I don't because I am cheap and just enjoying it my way same as Gary is enjoying it his way.

I do like the courtesy shown when larger boats approach and come off of the plane but a 43 Hatt can handle it if they don't. Similarly, I slow down and pull to the side for anyone who will pass without waking me.

Worse than someone driving fast and hitting me with a big wake are the graduates of Marine Max's Sea Ray Driver School . They believe that they should slow to idle until directly abeam of the slower vessel at which time they go to full throttle. This throws a wake that literally twists an idling boat sideways in the channel.

So I guess I would rather a boat not slow down if they don't know how to do it right.

Bruce
Freestlye
1976 43 DCMY
Tampa

 

[Capt.Erich]

The issue about sails blanketing the captains visibility is more to do with the ROR stating that there must be an appropriate look out at all times. I have been forced to sail into a busy harbor a few times. In those cases, I have posted crew on the bow to ensure that we were clear of other boats. I think many sailors get seduced by the idea that just because they are under sail and power vessels "must give way"; they do what they want without regard for other vessels or the general safety of their boat and crew. I've argued this point with may sailors who just don't get it until I take them on a delivery on a large motor yacht.

It all comes down to common issues weather you are a power boater or a blow boater... common sense and common courtesy. I think that many people... boaters or not... are greatly lacking in both of these.

Just my two cents.

 

[Freestyle]

Second story.

On Labor Day I had the pleasure of cruising the intercoastal from Ann Maria to Sarasota Bay. At Longboat Pass it is about 25 feet wide and shoaled to less than a foot on either side. It's one of GaryD's 25 mph zones.

As I cruised along at 9 knots, a poker run came by. Literally 40 boats passed me in this narrow channel at speeds of 60-100 mph. Sometimes one boat would pass on either side at the same time and almost collide when they rounded my bow. Most became airborn as they cleared my wake with their props 6 feet out of the water. If I had powered up to 16 knots and thrown my full wake in that shallow water I could have killed a lot of people.

Poker Runs look like a lot of fun but how do they get insurance for boats that go that fast?

Bruce
Freestyle
1976 43 DCMY
Tampa

 

[garyd]

Hey Bruce.

If you would of been throwing a wake and one of those go fast guys got injured would it be your fault. As I understand it as of now maybe. But they were going 60+ mph in a 25 zone acting irresponsible. I have to say faced with the same situation I would of been cruising along at 25mph thinking nothing of it. LOL

Big and go fast are terms that the non boating public want to define.

Licensing schooling. Well lets see about 50,000 people die every year in car wrecks not including the severly injured. If we school and license boaters will we have similar success? I for one would like to keep it out of the governments hands. It would be much better to be self regulated.