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VacuFlush on 32v

  • Thread starter Thread starter egaito
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egaito

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Jun 27, 2005
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  1. OWNER - I own a Hatteras Yacht
Hatteras Model
41' CONVERTBLE-Series I (1964 - 1971)
Just talked with SeaLand, and the tech confirmed that their 24v version will run fine on our 32v boats.

Anyone need pump motors? I've got two 12v systems that I'm either going to run with a converter, or replace with 24v if I can recover a small portion of the cost of changing them out.

Also, fwiw, the tech told me it would be fine to reduce the outlet and have the VF push waste through the 1" hose the GM's use.
 
So to clarify, you can run their 24v motors with a 32v supply? And, you can push, but not put vacuum on the old 1" waste line? Is that correct?

If the toilets will run on 32v, I wonder why they say that they don't make a 32v unit anymore. It sure seems like they would want to keep that part of the market if possible. All it would take is tag that reads something like: Input voltage 20-38v.
 
A couple of months ago we installed three 24V vacuflush pumps, all wired into the original 32V head circuits. They've been working fine.

Southern Comfort, 1977 58YF
Recently relocated to Ocean Marine in Portsmouth, VA
 
Ed or others -

My first post. Miss Molly is our 53ED and is based in Savannah. I am beginning the process of replacing the GM in the mid berth and aft cabin . I'm being told by sealand and their dealer through Environmental Marine that if I dont step down the voltage from 32v to 24v (or 12) that the warranty will be void. they seem to require an inspection after the install is done to certify the warranty. I welcome suggestions. thanks in advance.

Mal Hill
 
Did you already buy the VF? If not, and you want a 32v head, go with the Raritan Atlantes. They make a 32v version and you don't have to mess with vac tanks, remote pumps, etc. It's all contained in the toilet itself. I've had mine for 3 years now and not one problem.

If you're sold on VF, I'd follow their instructions and step down the voltage or go with 120v units and run them off of your inverter.
 
I recently had a "lovely" conversation with EM about warranty - I could "hear" his eyes rolling - I only called to ask for price on a very specific part (by part number) and got a lecture on how unqualified I am and that I should really leave this up to the professionals (gee, maybe I should get back in my galley and bake cookies, instead!). Basically, they do not want the consumer installing these systems. He told me that if I put in the vacuum generator that there would be no warranty. So, I asked him, if I replaced my existing S-pump and screw it to the floor myself and install new hoses while I'm at it, then there is no warranty on that brand new $800 pump? He said there would be a warranty for that. Then, what's the difference? He couldn't answer that one.

What is a little difficult to get a hold of, because it's their only document not available online and it does not come with the other materials with the new head, is the installation guide which contains all the do's and don'ts. I finally got it from Sealand Technology, directly, in pdf form. Let me know if you want it. It's good guide, and it's SIMPLE - nice big print with lot of pictures like an elementary reader! There is no Great University of Vacuum Toiletry from which one must graduate to install these, though speaking with the distributor, they'd like for you to believe that.
 
So, why deal with a company that treats you like that. There is plenty of competition in marine toilets. I guess I just don't understand this loyalty to VF. Is it so much better than everything else that you're just willing to put up with that type of customer support?
 
I concur with Sky's advice. In reading all the threads here re VF, I can't see a single reason to consider one but I can see many reasons NOT to consider one.
 
So, why deal with a company that treats you like that. There is plenty of competition in marine toilets. I guess I just don't understand this loyalty to VF. Is it so much better than everything else that you're just willing to put up with that type of customer support?


My dealings with raritan are usually much worse than Angela's dealing with EV. Try to get warranty from Raritan. When they had the bright idea to mount the circut boards on top of the lectra sans, they had to know the boards would fail. When I wanted to remote mount the boards in a dry spot, they got nasty and said that it would void the warranty. Oh yea the ridiculously expensive timers for the lectra san that would fail yearly were a real treat too.
 
Wow. thanks for the quick and detailed replies. Ang makes the right point - if the pump and tank are working its just seals after that. Ang - what did you do about voltage and hoses? I began the path to VF because of comments from other owners boats I have been on both sail and power. also reading threads here for a while. I've spent enough time with Jabsco before GM. I haven't bought the VF yet, and will look at the Raritan more closely.
 
I agree with Sky and MikeP. After reading so many threads just on this site about vacuflush troubles with pump cycling, etc I wonder why would anyone bother.

Lectra-San technology was impressive for a while back in the day decades ago, but Raritan can hardly be faulted for support of those old devices these days. The design of the new Atlantes heads is so well thought out and fool-proof that warranty service really should be almost non-existant. They have designed it so that in a bind you can reverse the polarity momentarily to unclog ANYTHING! I know this because somehow a stray SS screw ended up falling into my Atlantes and locking the bronze pump gear up! After a simple polarity reverse bump, the head spit the screw out and it was again ready for business! That was the first week of install and now more than 6 months later never a problem. I highly recommend the Raritan Atlantes.
 
did you go with the pressurized fresh water Atlantes Freedom? It's hard to argue with a system that will let you recover from stainless!
 
customer service? i've had a number of VF over the years, what customer service? never had to call them...

the simplicity is the appeal...very little moving parts, just a simple bellow pump. maintenance is limited to replacing duckbills ever 5 or 6 years. Mines are 10 years old (year round liveaboard use) and i'm going to have to replace the bowl seals... not bad after 10 years.
 
I agree with Sky and MikeP. After reading so many threads just on this site about vacuflush troubles with pump cycling, etc I wonder why would anyone bother.

Lectra-San technology was impressive for a while back in the day decades ago, but Raritan can hardly be faulted for support of those old devices these days. The design of the new Atlantes heads is so well thought out and fool-proof that warranty service really should be almost non-existant. They have designed it so that in a bind you can reverse the polarity momentarily to unclog ANYTHING! I know this because somehow a stray SS screw ended up falling into my Atlantes and locking the bronze pump gear up! After a simple polarity reverse bump, the head spit the screw out and it was again ready for business! That was the first week of install and now more than 6 months later never a problem. I highly recommend the Raritan Atlantes.




So you are condeming 20+ year old vacuflush units because your atlantes has given 6 months of good service? Not a very convincing arguement.
 
I'll ditto Pascal on this. We have lived aboard full time for about a year and a half now and the VFs have been more reliable than our land based toilets! Ours are about 5 years old. The PO changed the duck bills right before we bought it. The wife is not one to be particularly diligent about following instructions, but all I've ever had to do was put a little silicon grease around one of the seals, all of about 30 seconds of work. If one follows the simple instructions, they are very reliable, scent free and use very little water (though one mistake people make is not to run enough water through them). They are one of my favorite things about the boat.
 
I hadn't planned on doing the VF conversion any time soon, but I got steal of a deal on two complete, independent VF systems, so I dove in. The systems were the perfect match, but for the price, I chose to make it work. They were 12v vacuum generators which was not love at first sight with my 32v boat. I bought a Newmar converter (10 or 15 amp - can't remember, but it is oversized for the job and I got it for around $100 I recall)and stepped down the power for both of those vacuum generators through that one converter.

The third head I'm doing is getting the 24v vacuum pump and traditional vacuum tank. Sealand (and others) says the 24v will work just fine in that application. I've not done the 4th head yet, but I will - it's the crew head and right now, having VF for my guests is more important.

I really like the fact that they flush with just a pint of [FRESH] water which is a vast improvement over the water-consuming GalleyMaids.

There is maintenance with everything whether is a $600 vacuum pump or a $600 GM pump, or a $12 duckbill or a $78 stator - like everything else, they all give up the ghost at some point and need some attention.

For me, I like the VF because it uses fresh water and only a miniscule amount of it; it does not smell like salt water can do after a period of time; it's easy for guests to use and there is no guessing on their part as to how long they have to flush and the flush is simple - no guessing which direction to turn the lever or for how long to flush to make sure it's all gone from to it needs to go; the time between pump outs is vastly extended; the VF is much, MUCH easier to service than those GM pumps and they weigh only a fraction of the GM pump. These are some of the reasons why I did the conversion to VF. Had it not been for the deal I got that got me started, I would not have done it.

Once the entire boat is done, I will have the pleasure of removing 7 thru-hulls, filling in the holes, and eliminating 7sources of potential disaster on my boat. That makes me feel good. Every thru-hull is a point of maintenance, potential point of failure, followed by potential disaster. The less of those I have, the better I will sleep, no matter how well I take care of my boat.

On another happy note, I just got a great deal on some FV accessories. I picked up 32v monitor switches for $32 each. Best price I found online was $146 each. I got four of them. These are the indicators that tell when it's OK to flush - red light, no; green light, yes. This will be useful for charter guests who are unfamiliar with these systems. For me, I can usually hear the pump going ching, ching on Ed's boat and know to wait until that's done to flush, but with our pumps going in the engine rooms, I don't think the guests will hear them, nor do I expect them to have an "ear" for it. It takes about a minute to 90 seconds to rebuild the vacuum after a flush. So, it's easy for me to tell guests who may be using the head one right after the other on occasion to simply wait for the green light. I'm quite happy with my recent find on those monitors.
 
Not exactly related to the thread subject but thought I'd include it anyway.

I installed a toilet system from a company by the name of Tecma on my 57' CC Connie about 7 years ago after getting tired of replacing pumps, seals and what not on Raritan's Crown heads. The installation was straightforward and took less than an hour. Reliability was unsurpassed and you can NOT clog the pump. They are completely self-contained. They use a design that holds any inappropriately dumped material until it can be macerated to sufficient size to be drawn through the pump. I have tried rags, coins, etc., and their claim is solid.

When I bought my Hat, the first thing I did was tear out the marginally operating Galley Maids and replaced them with the Tecma. They come in 12 or 24 volt versions and quite a few styles to fit virtually any space on board our Hats. I chose the Silence Plus model and it is indeed, very quiet.

My initial concern on serviceability, since they are an Italian company, was relieved since they are distributed in the US by Wilcox Crittenden. I haven't had to test their service capability yet since as I said, they have been working flawlessly.

Link to their site for review: http://www.tecma.eu/products/toilets?steID=1&catID=93
 
This topic is definitely a controversial one. We have the 29 year old original GMs in our 53. They work great and I can't see any reason at all to replace them. If they spontaneously exploded I'd replace them with the Atlantes but until then...
 
We have two independent VF systems on our boat and for the 8 years we have owned it, duck bill valves and the seal between the bowl and the base have been replaced. Very pleased with the service. My experience is that using extra water is a good idea with each flush. Hold the pedal down for 4 or 5 seconds and the system get rinsed out with fresh water every time. Pumping out the holding tank a few extra times each year is more fun than getting into the plumbing ! ! !

As for running 24 volt motors on 32 volts. You can do it with any 24 volt motor for a while. Just try to keep the duty cycle short. Extra heat is the main problem. I would go for the 32 to 24 DC voltage converter. Or if you want the less expensive approach, use an in series resistor to knock the voltage down. A less than $5 solution that will more than pay for itself in extending your VF motor life.

Pete
 
The only one where I will have a 24v vacuum pump working off of a 32v supply will be the master stateroom's head. Once nice feature of those monitors I bought is that they have a breaker on/off switch on them so that you can turn them off in the head - no running to the breaker panel or to an engine room. It is normal for a vacuum pump to cycle a little every 10 hours to maintain the vacuum. Guests can turn it off at night if the pump noise is ever annoying, but since the new stuff is "whisper quiet", I don't know if the sound will be offensive anyway. The other pumps are in engine rooms.

Given that my master stateroom is a guest room (and not MY room) since Sanctuary is a charteryacht, that pump will be shut off all the time except for when we have charter guests onboard. I think that will greatly extend the life of the 24v pump. I like the resistor idea and I'll defer to Ed on the installation of that since electricity is not my forte. Meanwhile, that head will remain shut off most of the time so I don't have much reservation about the 24v/32v issue there.
 

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