used boat prices & new boat designs

[garyd]

Surfing the yachtworld listings saw a 1988 80' Hatteras in excellent condition for $599k. That's an awfully good deal if it is real.

Next, Island Packet just came out with a new 41' boat that gets 30 nmpg at 6 kts (round numbers),15 nmpg at 7 kts, and 5 nmpg at 8 kts. Now that's some kind of fuel economy. Yes it is smaller and lighter than our Hatts and can only top out at 11 kts. So not a true comparison. But if you're a real boater and want to go boating not just either work on them or drink on them ( nothing wrong with that, lol) then it is a boat worth looking at. P.S. $332K price tag.

On the other hand at 600k for a used 80' Hatt compared to a new 80' you could cruise for a very long time to make the difference in price vs fuel.

So as new designs come to the market place (including cats) it seems to me that the used Hatt market will not get any better (for sellers). And the new Hatt marketplace may have changed at least for a while.

When the new designs start saving folks $1k per month or more in fuel costs it will get everyones attention. Even the average 100' yacht in the Bahamas this summer was cuising at only 8-10kts to save fuel. So everyone feels it even the super rich cats like Sparky lol.

garyd

 

[Sparky1]

Super rich my ass, I even had to sell the Buick.

 

[eclipsarkanna]

Also on YW is a 70 ft Hatt/1984 which appears to be in great shape and is only asking $229,000 (http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1984/Hatteras-Cockpit-Motor-Yacht-1981257/Ft.-Myers/FL/United-States). There seems to be no bottom to large Hatt prices but the Birdman is doing his bit to shore up Hatt prices by asking mega dollars for his one-armed 58.

 

[ThirdHatt]

There seems to be no bottom to large Hatt prices but the Birdman is doing his bit to shore up Hatt prices by asking mega dollars for his one-armed 58.

OUCH!!! lol

 

[spindrift]

I was told by my surveyor that the 1980 Hatt 53 MY Colleen was formerly under agreement in Ft. Lauderdale for $75,000 and then offered to me for that price. Sea Eric saw the boat a couple of years ago and said it was not bad. I did not have the stomach to deal with the crew at National Yacht Sales (the repo shop) as my admiralty lawyer Mike McHale passed away early Saturday morning. I would not do any transaction with a repo shop without someone like Mike to keep these guys honest and to ensure a clean title. I have heard from multiple sources that National is a very difficult crowd to deal with. My initial dealings with them on this transaction were not pleasant and I elected not to continue. If anyone is interested (such as passages) it might be worth contacting these guys. But I would not do it without a good admiralty lawyer to cover my backside.

On another note, I just picked up a 34 foot mid 80s Sabre for $25k, an estate situation. A nice boat to hold my town mooring and slip without precluding me from buying a good sized Hatt.

No question that deflation in a lot of assets such as older Hatts is a real situation. I think that smart buyers should move on these boats. The Hatt 70 seems like a realy nice boat for the money. Not sure what the donation shop would be like to deal with.

Spin

 

[Sparky1]

Also on YW is a 70 ft Hatt/1984 which appears to be in great shape and is only asking $229,000 (http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1984/Hatteras-Cockpit-Motor-Yacht-1981257/Ft.-Myers/FL/United-States). There seems to be no bottom to large Hatt prices but the Birdman is doing his bit to shore up Hatt prices by asking mega dollars for his one-armed 58.

Hmmm, haven't you been shopping for a Hatt for about, uh, three years now? Makes me feel almost guilty to own two.

Maybe you should join forces with Silverado6x6 and go in half on a free boat.

 

[Walter P]

You guys better stop posting all these great deals on Hatts. We love our 48, but $229 for a 70 or $75 for a 53 sure is enough to tempt the devil. The 70 looks like a great live aboard for the winters down south... actually so does the 53...Darn it guys....stop it willya.

Walt

 

[chris piazza]

Wow good prices if your in the market to buy, Look close at that 70, 6000hrs on 12-71ti's! Looks like your gonna have to spend another 100k on rebuilds.

Chris
Superior Nights 53C

 

[spindrift]

FYI

I have only been seriiously in the market since early this year. Sold my 43 in 2007, thank heavens as there is no way I could obtain the kind of money I sold her for in today's market.

If I take the job in Dubai, the next boat will strictly be in the water for 2 1/2 months in the summer, most likely Maine. I am told that everyone gets out of Dubai from July 15th to September 15th.

Spin

 

[eclipsarkanna]

Hmmm, haven't you been shopping for a Hatt for about, uh, three years now? Makes me feel almost guilty to own two.

Maybe you should join forces with Silverado6x6 and go in half on a free boat.

You are absolutely correct. While I wait and watch the market closely I see it dropping and since I am not in a rush (its for retirement) I am waiting until I see some sign of a bottom on used Hatt prices. I would prefer to not wake up a couple of months after I buy and find that my Hatt is now worth substantially less than what I paid a few months earlier. Unlike you Mr. Birdman who with one Hatt in hand, roars out and buys Hatt #2 thinking he made the deal of the century only to find both Hatts are worth dramatically less that what you paid and thought they are worth. I actually took my lesson from your experience with the 58 TC - so I owe it to you for helping me save a mountain of money NOT rushing into the market place and waiting patiently until there is some sort of bottom. Unfortunately I am not as rich as you and can barely afford to own ONE Hatt, let alone two Hatts like you. In my next life I am going to own a safe business instead of being a lawyer!!

 

[the kuz]

A new large boat would drive us back to work so that's out, but we are looking at the great prices on used Hats. Every time we get tempted to join the 53 and up club, we think about how much work we have put into our 36C over the last 17 years (and the new diesels, gen set, etc.) to get the boat to where it is now. Even if we could find a "mint" large Hat, the thought of that much more exterior surface, interior areas, etc. to take care of makes us pause. We have never lived aboard for longer than about an 8 week ICW cruise (loved it), but I think Nancy, the cat and I could do a winter over (6 months) in the south no sweat on our current boat. We down-sized the house from 6000+ sqft & 7 acres into our smaller house (less than 3000 sqft & 1 acre) and are very glad we did. Some of that may have been from owning/maintaining the 2 properties vs the one now. Point is I don't know if bigger is better especially for a mid 60s retired couple. We are looking forward to cruising south for 6+ months one of these years, and are talking about the great deals we see on the 53s and larger Hats. What do you all who have cruised/owned both small and large Hats have to say to folks in our position????


Regards, Bob K

 

[Sparky1]

You are absolutely correct. While I wait and watch the market closely I see it dropping and since I am not in a rush (its for retirement) I am waiting until I see some sign of a bottom on used Hatt prices. I would prefer to not wake up a couple of months after I buy and find that my Hatt is now worth substantially less than what I paid a few months earlier. Unlike you Mr. Birdman who with one Hatt in hand, roars out and buys Hatt #2 thinking he made the deal of the century only to find both Hatts are worth dramatically less that what you paid and thought they are worth. I actually took my lesson from your experience with the 58 TC - so I owe it to you for helping me save a mountain of money NOT rushing into the market place and waiting patiently until there is some sort of bottom. Unfortunately I am not as rich as you and can barely afford to own ONE Hatt, let alone two Hatts like you. In my next life I am going to own a safe business instead of being a lawyer!!

Like they say, timing is everything. Nobody could have forseen the drop in values of our beloved old Hatts any more than they could avoid being held captive on a grounded plane on 9/11 and missing margin calls.

It's really funny how everything worked out with my coming to own my two Hatts. All in all, I can't complain seeing how much of a beating others have taken on their toys. I could literally give both my boats away and still be ahead of some I know who got caught up in all this mess and had to sell in a depressed market. Besides, had all the crap with the 58 not happened, I would never have met a fraction of the guys on here that I have. That's got to be worth something... to me anyway.

 

[Walter P]

Very well put Randy - all of it.

Spin.... There's a good article in the Oct. 08 issue of passagemaker magazine on page 114. It's about a couple (Janet & Bob Tremble) who moved to UAE with his work and decided to buy a boat and restore it. Check it out, I think you'll find it very interesting, particularily about the hot summers that scorch everything. Also the "fun" they had getting good labor in Dubai and nearby areas.

Walt

 

[krush]

I don't think I'd want to be in the UAE in the near future.........

 

[eclipsarkanna]

Spin:

I strongly recommend that you do a lot of research before heading to Dubai. I took a position there in 2003 when things were much better than now and I was "done" after 6 months. I have a lot of friends and colleagues still there that I keep up with regularly and things are getting very bad (rental housing is through the roof; Dubai has learned the meaning of "taxation"; times are not good there either and the difference is that you are not at home with the usual support systems and so on). All I am saying is - make sure you know what you are getting into, make sure you know your living costs vs what you are being paid and don't count on much of a social life). And I hope you like hot weather!

Bill

ps: Randy: Very well put and I was not taking a shot - just simply explaining why I am taking SO LONG to buy my dream Hatt. I find the large Yacht market very scary with prices continuing to drop beyond rational levels. Its worse than the stock market. And yes - I fully understand how one cannot predict circumstances that are beyond our control and you know mine with 9/11 and me being wiped out in the markets through no fault on my part. I know the same goes for your purchase of the TC - a very astute purchase at the time but who could have predicted this insane Hatt market today.

 

[Sparky1]

Ah hell Bill, you know me better than that as for me thinking you were taking a shot at me. No doubt you know I was just busting your chops about not having bought your dream Hatt yet.

BTW, it's still for sale.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

A new large boat would drive us back to work so that's out, but we are looking at the great prices on used Hats. Every time we get tempted to join the 53 and up club, we think about how much work we have put into our 36C over the last 17 years (and the new diesels, gen set, etc.) to get the boat to where it is now. Even if we could find a "mint" large Hat, the thought of that much more exterior surface, interior areas, etc. to take care of makes us pause. We have never lived aboard for longer than about an 8 week ICW cruise (loved it), but I think Nancy, the cat and I could do a winter over (6 months) in the south no sweat on our current boat. We down-sized the house from 6000+ sqft & 7 acres into our smaller house (less than 3000 sqft & 1 acre) and are very glad we did. Some of that may have been from owning/maintaining the 2 properties vs the one now. Point is I don't know if bigger is better especially for a mid 60s retired couple. We are looking forward to cruising south for 6+ months one of these years, and are talking about the great deals we see on the 53s and larger Hats. What do you all who have cruised/owned both small and large Hats have to say to folks in our position????


Regards, Bob K

Gosh Bob, my wife and I have exactly the same thoughts. We moved our 8
'86 36C Hat to Miami about 2 years ago. We now spend 3 to 4 months yearly aboard our Hat. I have ours perfect after many years of tweaking. We would like a 53 also, but have the same reservations as you do. I am not sure what we will do but for now are enjoying this great Hat.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

No wonder that 70 is so cheap. They Imroned most of the cabinetry and drawer fronts.

 

[hatteras45]

I had a friend inspect and photo the 70 Hatt. If they gave you 229,000.00 and the boat you MIGHT be able to put it into some kind of condition. It is a terribly neglected vessel.

 

[Brian Degulis]

A new large boat would drive us back to work so that's out, but we are looking at the great prices on used Hats. Every time we get tempted to join the 53 and up club, we think about how much work we have put into our 36C over the last 17 years (and the new diesels, gen set, etc.) to get the boat to where it is now. Even if we could find a "mint" large Hat, the thought of that much more exterior surface, interior areas, etc. to take care of makes us pause. We have never lived aboard for longer than about an 8 week ICW cruise (loved it), but I think Nancy, the cat and I could do a winter over (6 months) in the south no sweat on our current boat. We down-sized the house from 6000+ sqft & 7 acres into our smaller house (less than 3000 sqft & 1 acre) and are very glad we did. Some of that may have been from owning/maintaining the 2 properties vs the one now. Point is I don't know if bigger is better especially for a mid 60s retired couple. We are looking forward to cruising south for 6+ months one of these years, and are talking about the great deals we see on the 53s and larger Hats. What do you all who have cruised/owned both small and large Hats have to say to folks in our position????


Regards, Bob K

A big boat offers more than just comfort and space for live aboard cruising it also provides safty and stability. Larger boats can also be run a faster displacment speeds so your fuel burn a 9-10 KTs might be similar or even lower tha a smaller boat. Although there is more maintance it's not that much more in other word it's not porportional to lengh. Since your retired and in your 60s now is probably the time to do it if your going to.

I think first you need to get an idea of what to expect go and look at some boats. You will probably find that the killer deals on the 80s boats with an 18' beam really arent killer deals at all. You've seen a few mentioned here like the 70' in Fort Meyers FL for 229K or the 61' in Georgia for 250K. Both of them and every "killer deal" I've seen needed and awfull lot of work and where worth about what was being asked not killer deals at all.

What you probably can find is a well maintained boat advertised for around 350K that you could buy for under 300K and that's going to end up being a better deal than the 70' for 229K. It's important to remember that although the price of boats has dropped a lot the cost of a re fit has not. So buying a cheap boat then needing to do all the work will probably cost more than a good deal on a boat that's ready to go.

Are boat prices bottomed out who knows but if you wait for that you will probably not be able to time it to your advantage. Start looking now your best place to look is FL and the best time to buy is going to be after march of 09. Now is the selling season in FL by March there will probably be some good boats still available and the seller's will have little hope of selling untill the fall.

Just my 2 cents

Brian