Update, Carbon build up

[67hat34c]

Crusader 454's model 350. Noted carbon build up or oil residue on back of intake valves when I had it apart for valve stem seals. Decided not to pull heads. I did the water thing on port engine while at the dock, did not do much. Tried the water in the gen and think I screwed it up. Hope just head gasket. Pulled the heads on the MCCK and took them home, will re install this weekend.

Anyhow we took it out and ran up the river at about 1400 and then I slowly dumped a qt of ATF in each engine then ran up to 3000. Well it appears the Flow scans were very close to being even. in the pase the starboard was about 20% higher than port. Ran it up to 3200 and then they started to show uneven, about 2gph higher on starboard.

Appear I may be close to solving the uneven power and fuel use between these engines. May try to observe the secondary butterflies on each at the same rpms and see if they are even.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

If you have the later heads, (the ones that are OK with unleaded gas), you should not have any valve seals. We used to let the lead lubricate our valve stems so we had oil seals on the valve stems. Since we no longer use lead to lubricate those valve stems, we remove the seals and hope that the oil in the overhead will migrate down the guide and lubricate the stem. This sometimes causes a puff of smoke when you first start the engine. In any case I don't think the ethanol is the cause of that problem.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Crusader 454's model 350. Noted carbon build up or oil residue on back of intake valves when I had it apart for valve stem seals. Decided not to pull heads. I did the water thing on port engine while at the dock, did not do much. Tried the water in the gen and think I screwed it up. Hope just head gasket. Pulled the heads on the MCCK and took them home, will re install this weekend.

Anyhow we took it out and ran up the river at about 1400 and then I slowly dumped a qt of ATF in each engine then ran up to 3000. Well it appears the Flow scans were very close to being even. in the pase the starboard was about 20% higher than port. Ran it up to 3200 and then they started to show uneven, about 2gph higher on starboard.

Appear I may be close to solving the uneven power and fuel use between these engines. May try to observe the secondary butterflies on each at the same rpms and see if they are even.

Stop dumping water and/or ATF in your poor engines. There is no good reason to do this. I do pour Sea Foam in the carbs annually in the proportions recommended on the cans, but nothing else. You are looking for a liquid lock or some serious detonation as those poor cylinders try to burn ATF. These things are not gabage disposals.

 

[34Hatt]

Steve If you have carbon build up, get some GM Top engine cleaner it is made for that! Stuff works great been around for about 30 years!

Even though ATF does work well for some things. I freed up some rings in a motor years ago that ingested some salt water. Everyone said I would never free them up but I did. Motor ran for the guy for 6 years till he sold the boat.

 

[67hat34c]

Reason I believe there is build up is that the compression tests have consistantly been well above spec. Spec is 145 and they have been running north of 160 on the starboard and over 150 in the port. Starboard is the one using more fuel and slower top end. Besides that they run perfectly, motors never miss a beat and do not use oil.

Maynard, No Ethanol ever run in these engines at least in the last 7 years.
Engines were changed from 427's to 454's in december 1988. Will take your advice and not bother dumping any more stuff down the carburators.

 

[stormchaser]

Stop dumping water and/or ATF in your poor engines. There is no good reason to do this. I do pour Sea Foam in the carbs annually in the proportions recommended on the cans, but nothing else. You are looking for a liquid lock or some serious detonation as those poor cylinders try to burn ATF. These things are not garbage disposals.

Nah, water cleaning is absolutely fine, same idea as doing sea foam (BTW sea foam is simply a very close relative of ATF and Diesel fuel):

Sea Foam is:

40-60% light hydrocarbon oil (pale oil);
25-35% petroleum naphtha;
10-20% IPA (isopropyl alcohol)


...and there is a good reason to do a steam cleaning, ATF or Sea Foam can't get through major carbon deposits, minor ones fine, major no. I, along with tons of hot rodders and other engine gurus have been douing this for eons. You just need to do it right.

You need to:
1. Warm up the engines first
2. Keep the engine RPMs up, somewhere around 2,000-2,500.
3. Add in the water SLOWLY. I typically pull a small intake vacuum line and put it into a bottle of water and let it slowly suck in the water. I guess you could slowly pour it down the carb or throttle body but it would be harder to meter. Dip the end of the tube into the water for just a second then lift it back out. You should see some water pass through the tube (you did use clear tubing didn't you?) and the engine will slow a bit and run rough for a moment. Congratulations, you've just given the combustion chambers their first cleansing shot of steam. What you want to do is get a feel for how much water you can draw in without slowing the engine too much. Increasing the RPM helps but don't get carried away with either too much water or too much RPMs. Be patient and listen to the engine while it is getting its internal steam cleaning. Being in a hurry or accidentally letting the engine speed drop to an idle at the same time it takes a big gulp of water could be disastrous.

The key for this is a little water and a lot of heat. You want to produce STEAM in the engine, not liquid water (which won't compress). The steam is what attacks the carbon.

 

[Trojan]

I have always used an atomized Coke into the carb.

BILL

 

[stormchaser]

Seriously? I would think the sugar/corn syrup would be very bad... ???

 

[Boatsb]

Diet is best.

 

[67hat34c]

Possibly recycled Beer would work.

 

[34Hatt]

Possibly recycled Beer would work.

I think you would be better off with recycled Goose!

But I would put my money on GM top engine cleaner since I know that works.

 

[67hat34c]

Residual alcahol content would be a little higher.

 

[Boatsb]

Good Ides Steve. the idea is a small stream from a small nozzle

 

[MikeP]

If you are going to do the "pour stuff into the carb to fix carbon and other stuff," I'd suggest Marvel Mystery Oil. MMO has a long and documented history for such use (and many others) in all sorts of engines from marine to aviation.

It does an excellent job if used in the fuel tanks BUT be aware that it will loosen all the crud deposits in the tank and deposit them in the fuel filter. If your tank has a good bit of such crud, the filter will plug and replacement filters will do so, and their replacements will do so as will THEIR replacements. Yes, I know this from personal experience, I had to make a fuel polishing system and vacuum the tanks/polish all the fuel. Until then, filters would clog and stop the engine in 20 minutes of running.

 

[34Hatt]

I have done this with Marvel good stuff but not made for this the top engine cleaner is the best. You pour half in the shut it done for a 30-45 mins start back up and pour the rest in. Then race it up and watch the carbon BLOW out the exhaust it is that GOOD! My feeling is use a wrench on a bolt a screw driver on a screw, well you get the Idea.