Tubo Seized

[chris piazza]

On our last day of vacation coming home on the last leg(84mi) I noticed a little smoke from the port engine while on plane(1950rpm). I slowed down to idle and went into the engine room to switch fuel filter over thinking maybe I had a clogged filter. Back to the bridge, brought the rpm's back up and started blowing huge amounts of black smoke from the port engine, slow down to 1100 rpm and no smoke. Went back down into engine room and pulled air filters on the port engine and found inboard tubo was seized, no oil leak, no exhaust leak just froze. Here's my question, I cant remember if there is a gasket between the tubo and the exhaust or not. If there is not I seem to recall a certain seeler that needs to be applied there. Also I know the surfaces have to be almost perfect so you don't have a exhaust leak, any suggestions on how to prep the two surfaces? Gasket, no Gasket?

Chris
Superior Nights 53C

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Chris,
I think your 92's have the same dry turbos as mine. I used Silcolene 762 last time I changed a turbo, but others have stated that their formula has changed and it doesn't work as good as it used to. Another guy on my dock picked up a putty from Michigan Cat that seemed to work well. I think they have a yard in Saginaw or if you're going to GR to drop your turbo off at Michigan Turbo anyway, you can stop at Cat there. It's just about 2 or three exits south of Michigan Turbo.

 

[krush]

lots of car guys use the copper coat sealant stuff on their turbos---many don't even run gaskets.

 

[John Dickson]

I replaced my port turbo this past winter, the original was 24 years old. DD671 TI - The fitting to the exhaust elbow did not have a gasket. Had a heck of a time getting the old turbo off. My exhaust elbow did have some corrosion. I cleaned it up with a dremel tool with small wire wheel attachment. I would say after clean up the elbow was still only fair. I used silkolene 762 at the recommendation of our fellow HOFs and have had no problems whatsoever.
Hold on to your wallet, its $100 per tube. I purchased a rebuilt turbo through superior turbo in detroit.

Good Luck

John

 

[REBrueckner]

Chris: how did you actually determine the turbo was seized? Did you compare air intake flow by hand in two cylinder banks??? (I never thought about a quick/simple check to make while underway.)

When such a determination is made, are we agreed that running the engine at low RPM w/o smoke to return to port is ok??

 

[chris piazza]

Rob, I shut both engines down before removing the air filters to check both turbo's. The inboard turbo I could not even budge the intake fan with a large screwdriver. And yes I did run the engine all the way back home @1100rpm, hull speed 9.5kts. No smoke ran a little cool at 175 with oil pressure @ 45-50. I figured that the shaft was seized on the bearing (no oil seal failure or exhaust carbon or oil on blankets). @1100 rpm the turbo's are not spooled up enough to make a difference I don't think. Sky, I am going to give Kelly a call at Michigan Turbo this week and mail him the core. Did the price go up on them, it's been almost 5yrs since I replaced one? Also I read that (here on a old thread) that Muffler sealer can work for sealing that joint? And I do beleive that there is a cummings and cat dealer on outer dr. in Saginaw if I need to get the good stuff.

Chris
Superior Nights 53C

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Chris,
I have no idea what Mi turbo is charging to rebuild. I know they have a $300 minimum, but if that thing is seized, you'll be over that. I'd go with the good sealant putty from Cat.

 

[chris piazza]

Re: Turbo Seized

Sky
I called them late yesterday to speak with there tech Kelly who took care of me before. Unfortunately the lady I talked to said Kelly passed away two years ago. anyway she said from what i described it would be about 800.00. Less than one week turn around.

Chris
Superior Nights 53C

 

[REBrueckner]

So is there a way to make an easy check on a possibly seized turbo without shutting the engine down and without any disassembly? It would be convenient if one could be identified that would enable an owner to check while contininuing with twin engine operation and maneuverability.

I'm wondering if removal of air filters is necessary...I can't think of a quick check without doing that....
Not that's it's a big deal, but for example, if the filters are removed and the engine speeded up in neutral, would a turbo fan be observed to rotate?? Should be right??

 

[chris piazza]

Re: Turbo Seized

Rob,
I did shut the engine down and removed the filter to inspect the fan blades. The blades should spin freely and with very little effort, however on mine I could not move the blades with a screwdriver. (I used the screwdriver because I don't like sticking my finger in there, blades are sharp). And yes you can run the engines to observe the turbo fan but you sure don't want to get anything close to them blades. A couple of years ago I found out that you can clean the blades, while the engine is running, by spraying a lite amount of soap and water into the spinning turbo. This was recommended by Tony Athens over on Boat Diesel. With that said I have not tried it yet because I installed Racor CCV and so far the blades have stayed clean.

Chris
Superior Nights 53C

 

[Nonchalant1]

Detroit Diesel says to use Sikolene. They also sell it at their parts outlets.

Doug

 

[34Hatt]

So is there a way to make an easy check on a possibly seized turbo without shutting the engine down and without any disassembly? It would be convenient if one could be identified that would enable an owner to check while contininuing with twin engine operation and maneuverability.

I'm wondering if removal of air filters is necessary...I can't think of a quick check without doing that....
Not that's it's a big deal, but for example, if the filters are removed and the engine speeded up in neutral, would a turbo fan be observed to rotate?? Should be right??

You really don't want to go near the turbo with the engine running!
It not like the motor stalled and your a drift. Just get to a area were you have room or dock, anchor then shut down and pull air filter not to big of a deal and the most safe. Also like Chris said Sharp blades be careful not to hurt your self or the turbo and remember its going to be warm down there after shut down

 

[chris piazza]

Ok I found the Sikolene 762 sealant, Holy crap! $93.00 for 225 grams, I'm not sure but I think crack is cheaper... Is there an alternative?

Chris
Superior Nights 53C

 

[Genesis]

Its expensive. Buy it - it is the right stuff for this application. You don't need much - that tube can be split with a few friends on your dock when they need to take their exhausts apart.

 

[chris piazza]

Yup, I know, if your gonna do it do it right. I ordered the good stuff.

Chris

 

[REBrueckner]

It's cheap in comparison with having the have an engine room full of soot cleaned, not to mention ingested soot in engines....

 

[MikeP]

It is good stuff and it works as advertised but one thing to consider is that on initial assembly it is not normally used. The seal is achieved strictly by the mating of the two "true" surfaces. If you true the surfaces again, no sealant will be needed. But, of course, this requires more work than applying sealant! It's not difficult and can be done with some 400/600 wet or dry paper and a sheet of thick glass large enough to do "figure 8's" with the object on which you want the trued surface. But it can take considerable time if the surfaces are badly pitted/eroded.

 

[Avenger]

Metcalf Marine Exhaust is a distributor for Silkolene, I got a tube from them for (I think) about $60.

http://www.mmxhaust.com/

 

[chris piazza]

Thanks for the tip for Metcalf Marine however I just called them and they said because I am not a commercial sell it was $105 plus shipping.
I cant seem to fine it locally. I was talking to a local engine guy and he said he uses " boiler cement" and he gets it at Home Depot. That's scary sh*t!

Chris

 

[MikeP]

Furnace cement (never heard it called boiler cement) is good to 3000 degrees and would probably work fine as far as sealing and temps are concerned but I'd be concerned that it is too brittle for an assembly with a lot of vibration and it would fail due to that.

Last time I bought silkolene it was available at motorcycle dealers. They had small tubes (plenty for this application) for around 30 bucks. Might be worth checking since it's not like you'll be using this stuff very much.