Transducer question

[Dreamboat]

I want to change out my old Datamarine depth sounder, which would require changing the transducer as well. I'm thinking of installing a Raymarine i40 Depth Sounder and also have it talk to my Garmin 4212CP. From what I've seen advertised: the i40 can be bought with out transducer or in a package deal it comes with a plastic through hull transducer, which I don't want. I'd like to install a bronze unit, so I would buy that separately. The reason I'm looking at the i40 is that it most closely resembles the shape of the old instruments, although somewhat narrower.
So a couple of questions:
1) Anybody know if the hole diameters are the same for the old transducers vs. the new types or do I have to plug the old holes and re-drill?
2) Has anyone a similar set-up where a different brand depth sounder feeds depth information to the Garmin CP? In reading what's available in various adapter cables, it looks like this "should" work.

I'm also open to alternate suggestions based on your own experiences. Just trying to upgrade the Datamarine instruments as I find them difficult to read.
Thanks in advance.
Gary

 

[Boatsb]

First the Garmin will only display the raymarine data as in the numbers but will not show any details.todo this you will have to build a network and convert it to interface with the garmin.

Second the transducer will have to be changed and with a 53 you should be installing a transducer in a fairing block that projects an inch or two below the boat. It has to do with a layer of water that is disturbed and full of air bubbles as the boat moves.

Why would you not stick with a garmin product if you plan on keeping the 4212? I would look at a networked device or maybe a 741 and interface it with the 4212.

 

[MikeP]

What BoatsB said.

If you have Garmin, stick with Garmin.

The fairing block can be ordered with the transducer or you can drill out the old one for the new 'ducer. When I installed a new system/replaced the datamarine, I removed the oem wood fairing block and installed the new Garmin plastic block. You don't need to install a new block; I just wanted to do that. The oem fairing block is attached with screws/5200! The screws are easy to deal with...the 5200, not so much!

 

[steve c]

The Si-Tex SDD-110 depthsounder will work as an alternative to your Datamarine sounder. It uses the 120 kHz tranducer so installation with the exception of the cutout size for the display head would be easy. The price is good, it's very readable and has an NMEA-0183 output for interfacing.

 

[rwappleton]

Scott is on the money.

We installed the following:

Garmin 4212 and raymarine i-50 at main helm

Garmin 4208 and raymarine i-50 on flybridge

We did go with different transducer but forgot the brand

Everything talks to one another and we have XM weather and radio. The radar has helped with weather decisions both underway and at the dock. Scary accurate.

We wanted Garmin but the depths were expensive and got a deal on the i-50's. All running thru NMEA2000 network (did I get that right Scott) for future expansion.The transducer was moved for disturbance issues(in towards keel) and the hole is larger. The original fairing block was a PIA to remove! We have depth,water temp and water speed. We can now change the transducer in the water if needed. Considered dual transducers for redundancy and was talked out of it.

When first installed did not have all the features of the Garmin activated so information was displayed in two places. My neck was tired after navigating 50 miles of skinny water. Now all information is displayed on the Garmin which makes life easy.

We now have 6 months and 1500 miles of cruising and are totally satisfied. Upgrade plans include Radar,AIS and autopilot. As Scott said when combining brands check compatibility carefully.

Best of luck

Becky and Russ

 

[MikeP]

FWIW, virtually all depth transducers used by the usual brands of marine electronics are made by Airmar, regardless of the brand of component they attach to - that's just a function of the connector on the end of the cable.

 

[steve c]

Most of the Datamarine depth finders used a 120 kHz transducer in order to reduce the chance of interference from other depth sounders. Unfortunatley 120 kHz is not compatible with most modern devices. There are a number of previous posts referencing the Datamarine units. It is unlikely than other than the Sitex unit, you would achieve what you want without replacing the transducer. The original transducer, by the way, is very reliable.

 

[Boatsb]

What do you want to accomplish. Do you want a complete integrated system or are you looking to fill the hole in the dash for the lowest cost?

The Garmin depth unit is not that expensive.

 

[Dreamboat]

Scott
My goal is this: The old Datamarine head unit is difficult to read, so I want to replace it with something current. The reason I didn't chose the Garmin (which I would prefer) was because of the square shape. The Raymarine i40 has roughly the same rectangular shape as the old Datamarine units, which will fit better in the same location and makes the install from an aesthetic point of view easier when dealing with the cut-out of the old unit in the instrument panel.
I know about the need to network these units.
One concern was the hole size of the old transducer vs. the newer ones and that has been answered, as well as the recommendation for the fairing block.
The other concern was the Garmin and Raymarine units communicating with each other and Russ answered that question with his install.
I'm not stuck on the Raymarine units, just wanting to minimize the work in changing stuff around.
Thanks all.

 

[MikeP]

FWIW, IMO, it's good to have a separate, NON-integrated depth finder available. When I replaced the two Datamarines some years ago, I installed the new block/transducer and connected it to a garmin network and my two Garmin chart plotters - 3010Cs, which were the latest/greatest thing and are now hopelessly old...doesn't take long.

But I also installed another transducer and linked it to a pair of Raymarine ST40 depth finders, one at each helm. I once had the Garmin fail during a cruise and although I got it working after futzing around the following day, it was a scary thing to me having no depth finder. Having no plotter or any of the other "instruments" that were displayed on the plotter was no big deal at all but having no depth was definitely traumatic.

 

[GJH]

I'm a little confused about the whole issue with the dash. The Garmin plotter will read out the depth, hooked to a networked depth/fish finder module and the proper transducer.

I enjoyed, courtesy of the PO, having two sounding systems.on my boat. One of the legacy DataMarines and a Furuno network "black box" unit, transducers on each side of the keel.
If the old DataMarine works, I would discourage removing it. Perhaps the display could be re-invigorated by DMI Marine in Mass. It would be worth calling them :

http://www.dmimarine.com/

 

[jim rosenthal]

Virtually ALL the transducers used in our segment of the market are made by Airmar. I have actually never seen a transducer for a small boat made by any other company, although I suppose they must be out there.

The direct sales arm of Airmar is a company called Gemeco. They are in SC, I think. Transducer technology has moved along quite a bit- also they are now sold in a modular system which separates the transducer, the cable, and the through-hull, so that the flexibility of what you buy is much greater. I would call Gemeco and talk with them about what you want to do and what your needs are- they can recommend which transducer, which fairing block, cable, through-hull you will need. You can get it from them, or you can buy it with the electronics themselves. I have had very good luck with them- they really know their products and will help you figure out what you need.

Agree on the fairing block. Figuring out the deadrise can be annoying.

 

[SeaEric]

FWIW, I have a Garmin 740s plotter and a plug and play transducer that shoots through the hull. I didn't install it myself but I assume it's glued in. It works perfectly. I preferred that the depth number read out on it's own display so I added a GMI 10 that plugs in to the NEMA for it's data. It is the sorta big square unit but the numbers are BIG which is a good thing for me.

Unless you're looking for water temp, what is the advantage to a drilled thru hull transducer as opposed to one that glues inside?

 

[MikeP]

The in-hulls are less sensitive because they have to shoot through the glass and they are not considered suitable for fish-finding because of that. Actually, per the specs for the transducer, the P79 is not considered appropriate to shoot through more than 1/2" of FG but for depth only, my Airmar P79 has no trouble shooting through my 53MY hull which is between 7/8"-1" thick where it is mounted. I have never connected it to the Chartplotter to see if it can see any fish but since I don't use if for that, I don't care if it can or not.

The one thing to be aware of with in-hull 'ducers is that the transducer itself is mounted in a short tube that is filled with liquid - pink antifreeze is an excellent liquid for that purpose. The tube is filled with liquid and then the transducer is placed in position. One problem that can arise is if the tube section is not totally sealed to the inner hull surface, the liquid could seep out. If that happens, the transducer signal will not penetrate the hull and you will lose the depth reading. SO...if you suddenly lose depth, that's the first thing to check. IMO, this is one of those times to unlock the triple-secured box and use that tube of 5200.