Time For New Batteries

[adt2]

Marine electrician just left the boat and he thinks our problem is the batteries (and possibly the charger). Kind of what I figured TBH.

I know this is opening a whole can of worms, but what's the current thinking on new batteries for these old 32v girls? Our M.O. is to start the generator before we leave the dock - so ALL we use the batteries for is starting. I'm having trouble finding 8v starting batteries, though - seems like deep cycle are all that's available. Nigel Calder says for our use case, golf cart batteries are perfectly acceptable, but I know there are those who disagree.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Rolls 8HHG25PM is what your boat came with when new and its still the best choice for replacement. Batteries are the lifeline of the boat. Don't go cheap. Its one of the most important safety items. Its what runs your pumps and starts your engines and makes all of your electronics run.

 

[adt2]

I understand that's what the boat came with. I also understand (I think) that the boat was designed to have those batteries supply power for lots of things - toilets, pumps, lights, electronics, etc.

We do not use the boat that way. We are in the south and like air conditioning and cold drinks. We crank the generator before leaving the dock and we run it until we're back on shore power. We have a small 3rd generator that will run everything but the air conditioners, using very little diesel.

According to the owners manual and drawings, the following gear runs off the 32v system:

• Some lights
• Toilets
• Sump pumps
• Nav lights
• Dash lights
• Wipers
• Blowers
• Bilge pumps
• Electronics

Do all of those use DC all the time? Or do they run on AC when it's available? Do we need those huge, expensive batteries if alI we want them to do is start the motors? I'm not arguing with you - I'm trying to understand what I've got and what I need going forward.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

They only run on DC.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Just put in 3 X 12volt batteries and burn up what gives. Whats 4 volts + or - ??

 

[adt2]

Just put in 3 X 12volt batteries and burn up what gives. Whats 4 volts + or - ??

Well, all the electronics I've installed so far work on 12-24v DC. Seems like if a little delicate black box can accept up to 12 extra volts then those big old starters and pumps ought to handle a measly 4 extra volts.

But, as I've said repeatedly, I'm new to all this and trying to learn. Maybe don't be an ass.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Sadly, the 19 inch long, 8v batteries are history. For some reason everybody stopped making them.
The next size is 24.5".

Pull out the tape measure and rum. Visit your bilges and battery trays.

Can you fit 24.5" batteries to replace the ole 19" sets?

If not, figure your cold cranking amp requirements for your engines. That is what each battery has to deliver.
In series, battery amps are the same, just voltage goes up.
Shop from there.

Currently I am experimenting with a Frankenstein config. Jury is still out and I don't want to push it yet. Based on something I used to preach against.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Battery therapy;
Does your charger offer an equalize or cleaning mode?

During this, the batteries are over charged releasing some sulfide deposits on the plates.
It takes some baby sitting as you have to really keep up on the electrolyte levels. Boat will really stink also.
This may just buy you some time,,,, for weeks, months,,, ???

 

[MadHatter53]

Have you tested the batteries yourself? How about the charger?

 

[SeaEric]

After 50 years of boat ownership, I've gotten to the point (finally) where I just don't screw around with failing batteries. You can try various short term bandaids that may buy some time. Expect to be bitten in the ass with that plan, always at the worst possible moment. IMHO It's best when your charger is solid and you have fresh batteries.

 

[bostonhatteras]

After 50 years of boat ownership, I've gotten to the point (finally) where I just don't screw around with failing batteries. You can try various short term bandaids that may buy some time. Expect to be bitten in the ass with that plan, always at the worst possible moment. IMHO It's best when your charger is solid and you have fresh batteries.

I don't know. I think J C Witney still carries several magic battery elixirs that will bring old batteries back from the dead with just a few drops!

 

[Captain Ralph]

I don't know. I think J C Witney still carries several magic battery elixirs that will bring old batteries back from the dead with just a few drops!

Snake oils for batteries?
OMG, JC Witney? Are they still around??

 

[SeaEric]

Snake oils for batteries?
OMG, JC Witney? Are they still around??

Is JC Whitney company still in business?
July 16, 2020: US Auto Parts Network (now rebranded as CarParts.com) announced that it is shutting down the jcwhitney.com website and that it has ceased all print catalog publication. JC Whitney will live on only as a private label brand for some (presumably cheap) CarParts.com auto accessories.

 

[adt2]

I am one of these "research everything until you understand 100% of the problem, then make the (usually obvious) best choice" kind of people. Unfortunately, that sometimes leads to paralysis by analysis. In this case, after several weeks of poking at the problem, I still don't 100% understand the issue - but I believe the batteries are damaged to some extent. If I don't replace them I'm not going to trust the boat when we leave the dock, which is not how I want to live.

So we're going to replace all of the batteries as a first step. Then I'll call Analytic Systems tech support and have them walk me through the battery charger settings and testing to ensure that's not also part of the problem. If necessary, I'll install a new charger.

Lastly, I'm planning to install block heaters on both motors. That's unrelated to the battery issue but should help with cold cranking the old girl. I'll have to figure out how to set them up on a timer or remote switch and keep them off the 32v system so they only function when AC power is available. I'm guessing at 1500w each they'll deplete the batteries quickly.

 

[adt2]

Battery therapy;
Does your charger offer an equalize or cleaning mode?....This may just buy you some time,,,, for weeks, months,,, ???

I'm not sure re: the charger. I'm still trying to find the manual online. But even if it does, I'm not interested in buying a few weeks or even months. We we want to be able to trust the boat when we're out of sight of the dock, and we'll always be suspicious if we band-aid the thing.

 

[adt2]

Have you tested the batteries yourself? How about the charger?

I tested one bank and then managed to break my hydrometer. The cell values were all over the map. I couldn't find another meter locally so I topped off the fluids in both banks and returned home.

I had a local marine electrician visit the boat a week or so later. He tested both banks and said they're "definitely bad" but he's not sure why. He also said both banks were low on fluid again. He tested charger output and said it seemed fine. As far as I know he did not test voltage drop while cranking.

I'm planning to get the charger tech support folks on the line after installing the new batteries. Previous owner says there's a manual aboard but I'm 5 hours away from the boat and haven't been able to locate one online yet.

 

[bostonhatteras]

Reading will get you knowledge but it won't give you literal tools to make the necessary decisions. You can either farm out those decisions or invest in the tools to make them. 1 Real load tester for batteries. works on resistance with heavy clamps. will let you know the actual health of a fully charged battery any time any place. 2 specific gravity tester. will let you know the immediate voltage of each cell right then and there. you should record readings for future reference Extremely useful for equalization, seeing which cells are weak etc. 3 battery terminal brush to make sure you have a strong electrical connection between terminal and clamp. 4 quality multimeter to test resistance in circuits and voltage drop etc. Good maintainers test before replace

 

[adt2]

If you've got a recommendation for a good battery tester, I'm all ears. The other tools I have.

 

[bostonhatteras]

I tested one bank and then managed to break my hydrometer. The cell values were all over the map. I couldn't find another meter locally so I topped off the fluids in both banks and returned home.

I had a local marine electrician visit the boat a week or so later. He tested both banks and said they're "definitely bad" but he's not sure why. He also said both banks were low on fluid again. He tested charger output and said it seemed fine. As far as I know he did not test voltage drop while cranking.

I'm planning to get the charger tech support folks on the line after installing the new batteries. Previous owner says there's a manual aboard but I'm 5 hours away from the boat and haven't been able to locate one online yet.

a flooded battery cannot be tested while low on electrolyte. Fill with distilled water and fully charge, then test again.

 

[bostonhatteras]

I tested one bank and then managed to break my hydrometer. The cell values were all over the map. I couldn't find another meter locally so I topped off the fluids in both banks and returned home.

I had a local marine electrician visit the boat a week or so later. He tested both banks and said they're "definitely bad" but he's not sure why. He also said both banks were low on fluid again. He tested charger output and said it seemed fine. As far as I know he did not test voltage drop while cranking.

I'm planning to get the charger tech support folks on the line after installing the new batteries. Previous owner says there's a manual aboard but I'm 5 hours away from the boat and haven't been able to locate one online yet.

Charger seemed fine? It's the ability for the charger to output a specific voltage and amperage and then know when to step down that voltage amperage. not a seat of the pants observation by any stretch. If you're constantly low on electrolyte I'd say there is something amiss with the charger. individual cells low or all? bad chargers kill batteries fast determine the charger health and treat batteries and charger as a team. Whats the charger brand / model?