Thinset/Carpet Advice

[JLR]

My MY is up north for the first time. The PO had enclosed the aft deck, applied a coat of thinset over the fiberglass deck and put down either marble tiles or ceramic tiles (not sure which). Well, due to the cold, the tiles have lifted and buckled. (See below). So, I am having the tiles removed (shame really) and will have the thinset smoothed out where the tiles lifted. I will then have carpet laid rather than risk another tile installation. Any wisdom at how best to have the carpet attached to the thinset? I am reluctant to let a home carpet place nail wooden strips to the thinset for fear about going too deep and hitting the deck or alternatively not using stainless nails. Also, I am not sure I just want a piece of carpet cut and bound just sitting without any attachment.

 

[SeaEric]

When you say "thinset" this to me means a mortar type substance that is applied with a trowel, typically over solid concrete or concrete board (which is over wood). Is this what you have?

 

[JLR]

Eric - I really have no idea what I have beyond what the picture shows. I doubt they laid a subfloor of wood over the fiberglass deck both because of moisture concerns and the crowning of the deck. My guess is they just applied some type of self leveling stuff (but not cement or concrete) over the deck and placed the tiles right on that. There were two problems with the install. First, there were no expansion joints and second, the tiles themselves were butted up to each other. Sort of the same issue. Since the boat had never been north, I guess they never had this problem. It appears to me that there is no really feasible way to eliminate whatever is left under the tiles so my choice is to go over it with padding and carpet.

 

[bobk]

FWIW, on my boats I simply bound the carpet edges, did cut outs for the pipe supports and let the carpet lay. I never had an issue with edges lifting or the carpet moving. Be sure your carpet choice will resist fading and water.

Bobk

 

[MikeP]

"FWIW, on my boats I simply bound the carpet edges, did cut outs for the pipe supports and let the carpet lay. "

We did exactly the same on our 53's aft deck and it's been ideal. It can be easily lifted/rolled back if you need to for any reason yet it stays in place without moving around. We used a jute-type carpeting that has worn like iron now for the past 6 years. Looks sort of like this: http://canvas-tarpaulin.com/products/jute1.jpg

 

[JLR]

I am hoping to match the berber looking carpet in the salon. The tile pull and schmear is scheduled for tomorrow. I had carpet patterned and bound on my 43 and it has been great. It is down all season and is essentially weatherproof. However, it is not quite up to what I would want on the enclosed aft deck,if I can get a better quality.

 

[SeaEric]

John, it looks like you can just pick those tiles up. Have they all just let go? The white substance under the tiles almost looks like styrofoam in your photos. Unless it's really solid and looks like it's not going anywhere, I think I'd want to try to get whats underneath up and off the boat. If whatever it is is hard, it could perhaps crumble and come loose later under the carpet. This sounds like it could become a substantial project.

 

[SeaEric]

I am hoping to match the berber looking carpet in the salon. The tile pull and schmear is scheduled for tomorrow. I had carpet patterned and bound on my 43 and it has been great. It is down all season and is essentially weatherproof. However, it is not quite up to what I would want on the enclosed aft deck,if I can get a better quality.

If they can level the surface, why not glue the new carpet?

 

[JLR]

It does look like styrofoam but is hard as a rock. The more I hear from folks here, the more I might be inclined to go with a bound carpet with a rubberized back padding like on my 43. It is heavy enough so it will not move but I hate like heck to have anything less than indoor looking carpet on a fully enclosed and sealed aft deck. There is no practical way I can think of to get all of that stuff up and I am reluctant to use some type of impact hammer on a space that size. Worst of all, it is going to be one of those projects that once done, will never really be scrutinized again.

 

[SeaEric]

I just pulled up the interior photos of your boat (from soldboats). I see what you're saying. So the tile doesn't run under the cabinetry on the stbd side? My only concern with loose lay carpet cut and bound is getting a nice tight joint at the threshold into the main saloon.

 

[JLR]

Correct. It does not run under the cabinetry. It will need to be tight up against all surfaces. That should not be a big problem as long as it is patterned carefully.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Could you get this adhesive stuff off the deck with a grinder and a vacuum? A shame you are having to go through all this. A mess to say the least.

 

[JLR]

I think it might just be easier to lay another very thin coat on top to make it level (or at least take out the imperfections noted in the photo) and then just go over it. There really is no reason it needs to come out unless failing to do so would limit my future options. I do not think that is the case here. All this work for a floor area that is probably no more than 8'x12'.

 

[bobk]

My PO used a jute backed multi colored blue/green Berber on the sundeck. I do not know what the fiber is, but based on how easily I was able to get red wine and other stuff like chocolate icing up, I'd guess it is polyester. It's probably nine years old and doing well. The deck is enclosed, but not sealed and water gets in with heavy rains etc. So far, no problemo. Go for your match.

Bobk

 

[cjd]

It looks like thinset. Unless an additive was added, I am not positive that its made for extreme cold temperature swings . Was there anyway moisture got under the tile and made them pop? You can try to re lay the marble tile with pl400 construction adhesive. Better yet, some 5200??
CJ

 

[SeaEric]

It looks like thinset. Unless an additive was added, I am not positive that its made for extreme cold temperature swings . Was there anyway moisture got under the tile and made them pop? You can try to re lay the marble tile with pl400 construction adhesive. Better yet, some 5200??
CJ

I was thinking that too. But if there was no accommodation for expansion/contraction you could end up with broken tiles. You would have to relay the entire floor adding expansion joints. It also looks to me like these were laid at a 45 degree angle which I do not understand at all since the deck crown seems to still be there. Not sure what the original designer was thinking. Probably not worth the trouble in the long run.

 

[JLR]

Thanks for all of the help. There was no moisture issue--just a swing in temperature with no room for the tiles to move.

 

[workingonadream]

it looks more like a mastic type substance than thin set, either way it does not look like it was applied correctly as there are no trowel lines. im not trying to say that you would not have the same issue if applied the right way given that it is a marine application, but my experience has been that when you lay tile ,you should always have trowel notches and the thickness of the notches depends on what is being put down. at any rate I would do as a prior poster suggested, level it out with a similar type of substance and lay your carpet over it. my experience with thin set is that you will need a chisel to get it up , if what you have is a mastic type substance and it is hard like you said, you may need to do the same,as I have never had to remove mastic but if you are covering anyway, I would just leave it. the rest of those tiles will probably come right up. its too bad because those tiles look nice. good luck

 

[rsmith]

It would piss me off just knowing it's there. I'd be out there with a hammer and chisel. I can't imagine the bond is all that good to the gel coat unless they screwed some type of backer board down first. He difference in coefficient of expansion and contraction between the fiberglass and cement have to break it up sooner or later

 

[Island Dreamer]

You may be able to tile over the existing thin set mortar. You need a frost resistant tile that will not absorb moisture. Also look in to a decoupling membrane such as Schultra Ditra that will isolate the tile from the substrate material (deck surface) to allow movement without cracking the tile. I have used epoxy grout in the past in difficult installations and never had it crack or deteriorate. A good tile guy should be able to advise.