Test / Check engines while not running?

[ohiohatteras]

My brother is looking at an 85 42' Chris and it has 450hp 6V92's w/1400hrs.

He's wanting to put an offer on it, but is wondering what kind of engine testing can be done while the boat is in storage? Is there anything that can be checked out?

And what's the verdict on the 6V92's? From what I hear, you don't want anymore than 550hp out of them....so I'm thinking at 450hp, they should have a longer life span?

Thanks

 

[jim rosenthal]

An engine surveyor could do some sort of visual check, I guess, like bar them over etc, but a real engine survey means a lot of other stuff besides. Given what it costs to repair or replace things on marine diesels, he needs a real engine survey besides a hull survey.

Besides, if he's looking to buy it, aren't they going to put her in the water so he gets a sea trial?

 

[saltshaker]

My brother is looking at an 85 42' Chris and it has 450hp 6V92's w/1400hrs.

He's wanting to put an offer on it, but is wondering what kind of engine testing can be done while the boat is in storage? Is there anything that can be checked out?

And what's the verdict on the 6V92's? From what I hear, you don't want anymore than 550hp out of them....so I'm thinking at 450hp, they should have a longer life span?

Thanks

You have a few options here. How many hours and were they overhauled before? Ask for service records and any info the owner may be able to share about the engines. Oil sample reports if they've been done regularly. Do a good visual inspection of the engines and ER. You can tell a lot about how they've been maintained by their appearance. Check hoses, fuel in the filter bowls etc. You can pull the air box covers and borescope the cylinders but you won't be able to see all of them without pulling things apart. If everything appears good, make an offer pending survey and sea trial. If his offer is accepted and a deposit is made, the buyer should be willing to wait until the sea trial and engine survey is feasible. You may need to increase the deposit amount as a good faith gesture. I've also seen others close on the boat and hold money back in escrow until final inspections can be completed. This seems a bit risky to me on both ends but others have done this. If you do this make sure the contract is very clear and doesn't leave room for interpretation of what will or will not be addressed and how deficiencies will be handled. If it is an "as is" deal and you can't survey and sea trial the engines then the price should be accordingly. If you need to get the deal done before the weather breaks, you can run the engines but you won't be able to see how they perform under load. Check with the yard first as they may not allow you to do this particularly if the boat is stored indoors. As for the 6V92s, they are great engines at the right HP and configuration. At that lower rating they should be fine. That's about the same hp/cui ratio as a 435HP 8V71TI.

 

[ohiohatteras]

Jim.....he's looking at it now up here in Ohio. The lake is frozen solid so there's no sea trialing for a while! Know any good Diesel engine surveyors In OH?

An engine surveyor could do some sort of visual check, I guess, like bar them over etc, but a real engine survey means a lot of other stuff besides. Given what it costs to repair or replace things on marine diesels, he needs a real engine survey besides a hull survey.

Besides, if he's looking to buy it, aren't they going to put her in the water so he gets a sea trial?

 

[Nightingale]

Agree on the price, have the boat surveyed as much as they can do while indoors if it is and them hold money back in escrow until the boat can be properly sea trialed in the spring when the boat can be launched.

We do this every winter with customers.

I have used Burts Diesel service in Ohio, they know Detroits very well.

 

[workingonadream]

agreed I would not buy anything until a sea trial can be done. I went through this once. the boat was surveyed out of the water and all looked good. had it splashed for engine survey and had bad compression. If you like the boat and it looks good to your eye I would put a deposit on it and write the contract pending a hull and engine survey that is to your liking as well as a sea trial, all when weather permits. any deposit you give will stay with the broker, but I would not buy the boat and hold back money because you don't know what you will run into, and don't know if you will have held back enough money to make any repairs needed. if you go the deposit route you will almost always find something wrong that will get you out of the contract and get you your money back. the down side to this that the owner can still sell the boat to someone else if they are willing to close on it before you do your surveys. good luck

 

[Bob Bradley]

You can inspect the inside of the cylinders visually to determine their shape by observing the condition of the cross-hatch on the cylinder walls. I'm a bit over my head as to the actual process, but I believe that the air box covers can be removed in order to see this. Perhaps Karl or one of our other gurus can comment further on this.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I think with the air box or inspection covers removed, you can see part of it. I think it would take a borescope to see all of it and even then you only have a visual check as opposed to a functional check. Writing an offer pending sea trial etc and a full engine survey, if he really likes the boat, seems a reasonable thing to do. It would afford him some protection if the engines didn't perform as they ought to, or the boat didn't perform or run well.

And I think a compression and leakdown is a good idea, too.

 

[Genesis]

You can get a look at the cross-hatch on the cylinders and the compression ring condition through the airbox covers. But that's not the whole story; you can reduce risk this way but that's all. You can't do a compression on these engines cold; it has to be done hot and running to get valid numbers and a reputable wrench will tell you that up front.

You can do an escrow but that gets tricky. Whatever you hold back is the maximum adjustment you'll get, period, and you may have to fight over it.

I'd write an offer with a customary deposit, subject to survey and wet sea trial when the weather breaks. You can't run the boat before then anyway and neither can the seller. Leave the seller the contingency of being able to sell it out from under you, provided there are no contingencies on the competing offer. If he finds someone who is willing to gamble let them have the risk.

If the deal blows up then you start over; you've lost nothing. If you escrow and have to get into the escrow funds you're probably going to have a fight of some sort, and if the adjustment you think is appropriate exceeds the escrow you're going to eat it 99 times out of 100.

There's always another boat.

The only way I'd make an exception to this is if I was utterly convinced that I was literally stealing the vessel. But remember, if you think you're stealing it why is the other guy willing to let you steal it? It's possible that there's some circumstance you don't know about that makes the deal necessary for him irrespective of loss, but it's also quite possible that he knows he's only getting a fair price, if that, and you're not really doing as well as you think.

 

[Paul Gwiz]

When I did my engine survey the boat was on the dry, they pulled the impellers & fired the motors , the ran up to temp it was 28`temp. outside . the temp on each cylinder tells most of the story on the condition , & of course exhaust tells more of the story.

 

[workingonadream]

look there are many things you can do while on the hard, including running your engines with water or removing the impeller, but what is the point, you still have to do a sea trial, running on the hard is nothing like running under load which is the point of the sea trial to check all running gear. my point is that the only way to accurately survey a boat, with the exception of the bottom is to have it in the water and ready to go, you will get the best results doing that way. I don't know how much the boat cost or even what kind it is , but im confident it is a sizeable amount. I would go into this like I said in my previous post, don't let your emotions get the best of you because you can come out on the losing end.good luck

 

[saltshaker]

Some good info here. One thing to consider is the cost of repairs and the value of the boat in question. You said it was an '85 42 Chris Craft with 6V92. That would mean it most likely is a 42 Commander. They are real nice boats but like most older boats, not worth too much anymore. There are plenty of other more popular 42FT SF out there that are also very low priced. A real good one might be worth 60K-75K but I think that may be a stretch probably closer to 50K-60K. IMO that's a great boat for the money but the market is what it is. Given that the cost to major the engines could easily reach or exceed the value of the boat. Unless he's certain the boat and engines are in top shape and the price is in the 20K-30K range, I'd make the deal contingent on a complete survey and sea trial. That's standard practice and no reason to give that up. I'm sure the seller is aware of the difficulties of selling a boat off season in an area that limits the time when sea trials can be conducted. Make the offer, with the expected contingencies and see where it goes. If it gets accepted your brother and the seller won't have that much of a wait before they can finalize the deal. Hold out for the weather. Spring will be here before you know it.

 

[TopHattandTails]

Burt's is certainly good as well as T- Diesel (Tom Hill). I've used Tom for the past 8 years and he did my engine survey. Can't go wrong with either.

 

[ohiohatteras]

Thanks for all the comments guys!

 

[Bob Bradley]

There's always another boat.

Another fair observations. I've owned two Chris Crafts and one Hatt over the past 35 years.

The Hatt is a better boat.