Steering Rebuild Question

[Capt.Erich]

I have a 34 SC with the origional Crowell Helms. I am contemplating replacing all of the old copper lines with modern hydrolic lines. Has anyone done this? Any ideas about type of lines to use?

 

[Boatsb]

You want heavy duty hydraulic lines that are oil and fuel resistant. Are you planning on terminating them in the boat? If so the options are less. I would replace them with HP hydraulic lines made up un advance. Also you need to make sure you get the right ends to hook up where the copper flare fittings leave off and there is more than 1 type of connector.

 

[MikeP]

Why replace the oem copper lines? New hydraulic lines are NOT more durable than the oem copper; I'd leave them in place. If you are installing new equipment that requires additional lines, I'd suggest you plumb the new lines to the existing copper.

 

[Genesis]

If the OEM copper is degraded, I'd replace it.

If not, I'd leave it alone.

Copper is VASTLY superior to hose. It lasts longer and stretches less. Ordinary hydraulic hose is NOT suitable for steering and will produce a very mushy and imprecise feel, as it "stretches" too much. There IS hose made for this purpose but in this application the copper is still the better choice, with jump hoses for the final connections where flexability and vibration dampening are important.

 

[garyd]

Just did this. Had new marine hydraulic steering lines/hoses made up with the correct fittings. They did not have the 1/4" return line in the same format so used a high pressure hose. If I was to do it again I would use the 3/8" on all and reducers for the return. It was a major PITA on my boat because of where the lines were located but it made a difference. The steering is easier to operate and less turns but that might be because I bleed the lines better.

The old copper lines I took off were paper thin in spots and broke in several places upon removal.

I learned a couple of thing but I would do it again in a heart beat. It sure feels better knowing those copper lines are no longer in there. Nothing against copper except it reacts with salt water and starts to corrode.

Have fun boating garyd

 

[jim rosenthal]

Interestingly, Hynautic uses nylon flexible tubing in their new steering kits- or at least they did a few years back when I was having my steering head and reservoir overhauled. I have avoided facing this issue, but I suppose I will have to do so at some point; it is a huge pain to pull new line through the boat, whatever I decide to use. High-pressure nylon tubing doesn't corrode, and it doesn't "pant" the way hose does. Copper is great stuff but in my boat at least it is old, and although it is holding up okay, it can't last forever. Especially in the engine room, it is starting to look pretty decrepit at this point.

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has had to do this for a Hynautic system and what they used and how they did it. Maybe next winter, if nothing compels me to do it sooner.

 

[Genesis]

The nylon is the ONLY real option if you're not going to replace the copper, as it doesn't stretch (much)

But - there's no way that's going to outlast copper. 20 years is a long time......

 

[captadamr]

We installed the nylon hoses in the Tiara we put a tower on 2 yrs ago. I dont see any diffrence in the responser between the Hatt with copper and the Tiara with Nylon. The Tiara is very responsive (could just be the boat) and not having the Res to worry about is another goodie. I have a small leak on the ram, so every few months i throw half a quart into the lines via the tower, spin the wheel a few times and its good to go.

 

[bateau beau]

Yeah, but ya can't polish the hose stuff....

 

[garyd]

Jim my system was hynautic. Bleeding the system was kinda fun and rewarding. You do need a helper my ten year old thought he was captain for a day. LOL

I thought my copper lines were in pretty good shape. But just in case went ahead and changed them out. A cold chill went down my spine because when I was moving one to get it out, it split and crumbled in my hands. I can think of a few times if that would of let go it wouldn't been pretty.

As far as draining the system that was messy. If I was to do it again I would use a combo of gravity and air pressure to get it all out at a convient point.

I would also try to label port and starboard. This is harder than it sounds as these things disappear from view into and out of bulheads and under and over things. I took my chances and thought well I have a 50/50 chance, You can only get two lines screwed up on a single station. Well sure enough I had to switch them so I did it at the helm where the rubber connects to the copper. It was a lot quicker there than down below only lost a capful of fluid. Make sure you let the air out first and release the two pressure valves. I bought a new pressure relief valve as mine was leaking. I would suggest that since the biggest pain was draining the system.

I also used a small air compressor that helped a great deal.

Change them out you will feel better. 20 years is long enough.

I only changed the ones that were exposed to salt water and corroding, they went from the ram to a union. That union was attached to the lines that went up to the bridge. Those lines were O.K. I thought about changing them as well but then thought if you do get a leak that is unrepairable you only have a small line to fix instead of one big one.

Have fun boating. garyd

 

[Capt.Erich]

Thanks for all of the advice. I found out today that my Crowell system was upgraded some time ago but all of the main lines (copper) are probably circa 1964. I think I'll replace them just to be on the safe side.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

What goes wrong with the copper lines. Ours are original from 1986 and look like new. I suppose it is the salt water thing eh? Before I moved our boat to Miami I coated all our shiny copper tubing and brakets with Bo-Shield T-9. I hope that prevents the green game.

 

[egaito]

Vibration or bending can "work" the copper, making it brittle. It's pretty flexible stuff, but if you take a piece and bend it back and forth a few times, you'll notice it will get hot, then snap like a twig.

As long at the metal hasn't been "worked", I'd rather have it than hose for steering. Especially the "old" copper, in which the tubing had a much thicker wall.

That said, I hate flare fittings on a boat. Every time I've dis-assembled one, I have found it to be brittle, probably from "working" through vibration of the joint.

I guess corrosion is an issue, as it is for any metal on a boat. My steering lines are only exposed to the bilge for a short run, and aren't in bad shape for a 30 year old boat.

I have seen a couple of Hatts where the copper fuel lines (running low in the bilge) have failed. I don't know why though....could have been from being disturbed over time by work in the bilge, or corrosion. Would be interesting to know, but it became something I looked for during pre-purchase inspections.

fFNow, if I had to pull new lines, copper wouldn't be on the list! It's a lot easier to pull hose, and I think newer, thinner walled, copper tubing would be exposed to too much "working" in the process.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Those copper hoses don't appear to be "soft copper". The runs are too straight. I believe they were half hard copper. The only way as I see it to do an exact replacement of all lines would be to build a new boat.

 

[TomT13]

Hynautic uses “Parker Flex” lines that are reinforced nylon. You can get “Parker” fittings much like the ones on your blue fuel lines that have a spline and thread on. I just replaced all the steering lines on my 1985 36C in one day and added a hydraulic pump for the auto-pilot. The reversible pump that I added makes bleeding the system very easy. My old copper lines were so oxidized and leaking I had no choice. The nylon lines are much more flexible and move with the steering cylinder so I did not have to get high pressure rubber lines fabricated.