steering problem

[Red Hatt]

i'm having steering issues . i followed the steering tips and tricks but i'm still having a problem. After bleeding the system the steering seems to work when you turn the wheel to the port but when you turn the wheel to the starboard it hard to turn and the pressure goes up on the pressure gage, I can't figure out what i'm doing wrong, Does anybody no what the problem could be? what am i doing wrong??? thanks for any help.

 

[sunset grill]

How thick is your steering fluid? Are your rudders bent or have something lodged between them and a prop? Just Thoughts. Good Luck Steve

 

[rsmith]

If its Hynautic there is a problem at the valve that returns fluid to the fluid resivoir

 

[MikeP]

"but when you turn the wheel to the starboard it hard to turn and the pressure goes up on the pressure gage,"

Several questions and comments:

I'm assuming it is a Hynautic system, right? If not, no need to keep reading; I have no idea if the following applies to any other steering system.

Are you saying that you can turn the wheel to the left and it will turn "normally" to the point it which it "stops" but then when you then try to turn it back to the right it is immediately difficult to turn?

Or does it turn to the right for several rotations and then becomes difficult to turn?

Is the rudder actually turning with the wheel?

Where is this pressure gauge to which you are referring?

In the Hynautic system there is no steering "stop." What stops the wheel is just the increased feedback pressure that occurs when the rudder reaches the end of the travel in either direction. When that occurs, you can still turn the wheel endlessly though it takes far more effort. The mechanical pump, which is attached directly to the steering wheel, has a series of cams/valves/springs and the springs allow the valves to open (pop-off) as the pressure gets to a preset point. You can continue to turn the wheel after the "stop" (it should take considerable effort) and you will feel/hear the valves "chattering" as they pop-off, relieving the pressure.

Re the pressure gauge: IF the pressure gauge you are referring to is the one on the reservoir, that gauge simply shows the pressure in the reservoir tank. The tank is pressurized to ensure that fluid is supplied to the hydraulic system steering pumps at the helms. The pressure in the tank has no impact at all on the steering itself. IOW, whether there is 10 PSI in the tank or 40 PSI in the tank, there is no change to the steering effort or feel at the wheel. If the hydraulic reservoir could be located above the upper helm station, there would be no need to pressurize it at all; gravity would ensure the system was full of fluid.

Turning the wheel to or even beyond the "stop" should have no effect at all on the pressure in the reservoir tank.

 

[Boatsb]

The valve as mr smith previously stated is probably the culprit unless when it turns sadly to one side its because the rudder is not moving and therefore still at the end of travel.

Is the ram moving? Is it free to move? Can you disconnect the ram and move the rudders?

Common sense helps a lot here. The whole story needs to be known. What did you do to diagnose? What changed since the last time it worked?

 

[captddis]

i'm having steering issues . i followed the steering tips and tricks but i'm still having a problem. After bleeding the system the steering seems to work when you turn the wheel to the port but when you turn the wheel to the starboard it hard to turn and the pressure goes up on the pressure gage, I can't figure out what i'm doing wrong, Does anybody no what the problem could be? what am i doing wrong??? thanks for any help.

Was the helm pump apart? One time I was in a hurry and did not index the parts and it did the same thing. Got the housings back where they were and all was well. Now I always prick punch the housings.

 

[rwetherington]

You have a blockage in the system. The pressure should never change. I would look for the relief valve to be stuck and the block that all the fluid goes through by the ram.

 

[Red Hatt]

Thanks Guys for the replys : More information Re : Yes the system is hynautic. the fluid is red in color. the rudders turn freely when discounected from the ram. The preasure gage is on top of the resavoir.What happen is this spring when dewinterizing i noticed there was no steering at all so i looked at the Preasure gage and there was no preasure so i added 25 psi preasure and still no steering . then i went back to the gray box in under the cockpit and bled the line per the tips and trick of sams marine. then the steering worked when turning the wheel to port.but when i tryied to turn the wheel to the starboart it was reaallly hard to turn and the preasure on the gage shot up. Don't know what else to do ? Do you think i need to re bled the line ?? Maybe at the helm??

 

[MikeP]

If the pressure in the tank went up when you turned the wheel, then the valve, as Rsmith noted is bad.

The bleeding procedure (after pressurizing the tank) includes rotating the wheel 60 rotations in one direction followed by 60 in the other per Hynautic instructions. HOWEVER, I have found that sometimes it takes considerably more than that so don't be too shocked if it takes 90 rotations to "harden up."

Red fluid could be 5606 (which is the correct fluid) or ATF. ATF will work but it makes for a slightly stiffer steering. Hynautic used to recommend 5606 but they figured out that if they sold hydraulic fluid under the Hynautic brand name, they could make some money! Hynautic fluid is clear and costs 2-3X as much as 5606. I don't like it for both reasons!

Also, as noted by Captd, the pumps, though very simple and easy to disassemble/reassemble, have cams that have to be indexed or "timed" properly so if you took it apart and put it back together incorrectly indexed, it will not work properly. But unless contaminates (water) got into the pump and pitted/corroded the valves, there is really no need to ever take it apart. Seals can be replaced without actual disassembly of the pump components.

 

[sgharford]

I bet rsmith nailed it with the relief valve(s) located behind the large flat screw heads at the bottom of the unit. I would remove the entire unit and get on a workbench if you are going to goof with it, there are a bunch of small parts that are spring loaded if you remove those screws.

If all else fails send to these guys: http://boaterstore.com/hynautics/hynautic1.html. It will cost you around $190 to rehab plus shipping. They may have to replace the upper bushing that supports the shaft as well. If you have old style (H-21) the bushing has to be machined out and it will cost around $125 to make it happen (your oil seal will leak if too much slop in that bushing). All the Best.

edit: Another thing - if you do take the top off and start disassembling, the plungers that the ball bearings ride against go in a specific direction. If you look at the top of each one (there is something like 10 of them), you will see the indentations that act as the cam on each plunger are positioned in a very slight circular fashion. If you put in the wrong way direction (180 degrees off), you will have very 'bumpy' steering whenever the ball actuates that plunger.

 

[Red Hatt]

Which box do think has the problem the one under the cockpit or the one under the helm console??

 

[MikeP]

It's not either of the helm pumps causing the problem per the symptoms you have described. The relief valve being talked about is either mounted under the reservoir or mounted separately. On our 53, the valve is mounted separately, NOT at the reservoir.

Here's a description:

http://boaterstore.com/hynautics/3linepurge.pdf

 

[Red Hatt]

Mike should i just order a new reilef valve?? Thanks for your advise.

 

[MikeP]

I've never had one apart and though I would assume you can disassemble/ clean it, it may be corroded/pitted and not really worth bothering with. However, if it was me, I would attempt disassembly just to look at it carefully for my own satisfaction. It's possible that some dirt/whatever is obstructing the valve and you may be able to fix it. But I'd be prepared to buy a new one. If you have time to mess with it take it apart and check it out. If not, buy a new one with no further consideration and just replace it.

AGAIN, based on the description of the symptoms, it sounds like it has to be the relief valve. But like any internet long-range troubleshooting, all the advice here is worth exactly what you paid for it!

Good Luck!

 

[31FlyCruzr]

It has been a while since my system leaked down, I did fill the reservoir after repairing the leaking line. After replacing the plug and pressurizing the reservoir, then purged the air in the sealed system back to the reservoir per the instructions. There is no bleeding of the system where you crack a fitting and let fluid out. You pump the air thru the control valve in the purge condition into the top of the reservoir.

I recall at first, trying to purge by loosening the wrong part because my unit was different looking than the standard picture in the instructions. Once I got properly oriented, it worked fine. I did need to turn the wheel a lot.

I do not understand how the reservoir system pressure can be increasing unless the reservoir is completely filled. It does need an air gap at the top to work properly.

 

[Red Hatt]

Mike , i think i will order a new relief valve just incase the old one has gone bad. if after i take it apart and can repair it i'll just keep the new one for a spare. Thanks Mike for your help.

 

[MikeP]

Hope it all works out with no subsequent issues.

"I do not understand how the reservoir system pressure can be increasing unless the reservoir is completely filled."

Again, the whole thought in this case that the relief valve is bad/leaking is based on the description that pressure is rising in the reservoir when the wheel is rotated.

When a helm wheel is turned, the helm pump generates pressure in the system to the ram/rudders. If that relief valve is not sealing properly, hydraulic fluid under pressure generated by the helm pump is dumped into the reservoir instead of bypassing it which then raises the pressure in the tank. If, for example, the tank is pressurized to 20PSI as shown on the gauge and you then force more fluid into it, via the bad valve, the reading on the gauge will rise accordingly, based on however much fluid is forced in which further compresses the air at the top of the tank.