spongy foredeck

[spindrift]

Any suggestions from the crew on how to repair a somewhat spongy deck section just aft of the bow pulpit? Water seems to have migrated in from the capstan. The spongy part is just forward of the captain about 30 inches between the capstan and beginning of the fiberglass bow pulpit. The soft deck is also about 36 wide center aft of the pulpit and forward of the capstan. On second thought, the water intrusion could be coming from the aft bolts securing the pulpit to the main deck structure.

One thought I have is to come in from the forward chain locker underneath, remvoe any overhead and glass, clean out the failed coring and inject with West system. The other approach would be to repair from the top, perhaps just do some injection of West Epoxy and try to match the injection holes with some gel coat repair in the deck (might be difficult). One last thought would be after repairing to cover the affected area with some high density PVC that is painted to match the deck. If trimmed up properly, it might look like a decent cap in this area.

Naturally, I would pull and re-bed all boat on the pulpit and capstan that are through the deck as failure here is what most likely led to the water intrusion in the first place.

Spin

 

[Boatsb]

Once the balsa is wet it needs to come out. If you remove the windless and other items above you will probably find the damage is further back than the chain locker. To repair from the inside you do the same as from above but gravity is against you so putting up new plywood or balsa is a bit trickier BUT the finish is not as involved as the headliner hides the repair.

 

[34Hatt]

Like Scott said balsa needs to come out one way or the other.
Doing the drill and fill job is a Hack job!!!

Karl did his from the under side which can be done but you better be good at it and be able to be neat. Vacuum bagging the core back in place is the best way. I did a spot under my bridge this way when I was re-doing the salon. Also you do not mess up the top side and non-skid pattern.
BUT as scott said it may go past you bulkhead so there goes your headliner!
Really depends which way your more comfortable with.

 

[Traveler 45C]

Heres Karl's post on the job:

http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13486

 

[captddis]

I did mine from underneath in the FL August heat. It is not for the faint of heart. I removed the windlass with a sawzall and removed the pulpit which had five layers of plywood under it and was now mush. I used a rotozip to cut the glass underneath and used a wood chisel to scrape out the balsa that was not mush. The mush and black water stinks like hell and the fiberglass dust is miserable. I would cut back to dry balsa and then there was wet balsa behind it and would cut that out. Hatteras did not fill the kerfs and they created highways for the water to follow......
Rebuilt the pulpit and I used 3/4 plywood that was saturated in West epoxy for the core under the pulpit. It was a two person job putting the biaxial cloth up and it was messy. We put down wax paper and used epoxy mush to set the pulpit on to the deck to remove any areas for water to collect. After the epoxy kicked the wax paper was removed and everything was caulked and bolted down. Installed a new GM windlass and made sure to seal all the exposed core around the hause pipe, then installed a new teak inlay that was glued down with 5200 and no screws. Three months later it was done.

The yard quoted another 46 owner 10,000 for repairing the deck under the pulpit on his boat . I would not do it that cheap Knowing what I know now!!!

 

[Walter P]

Being the champion procrastinator that I am, I am now faced with a must do job rather than a should do job. I have read a bunch of posts on how each job was done and have concluded that the best and easiest way to do the job is to remove the pulpit and the top skin. While Karl did a good job, I think that working on fibreglass upside down- backwards is more of a PITA than I could bear.

I never considered the "highways" that were left, but was very happy to hear about it as it explains why I am getting a leak where there is no violation of the glass about 10 feet from the foredeck.

The problem with these jobs is like the old song about the leaky roof that does not leak when it's sunny and when it's leaking it's raining and you can't fix it in the rain. Can't fix it in the summer because it's too hot to do fibreglass work and can't fix it in the winter because it's too cold. What to do....what to do.

Walt

 

[spindrift]

Reading these replies makes scares me to death!


Spin

 

[Vincentc]

I am now completing a similar task and have posted parts of my experience in regard to pulpit removal including phots, on a 43 DC. For some reason a title search for "pulpit" will not ID my posts, but a search for my threads will.

It is not that bad a job once you appreciate how it is all constructed and the pulpit attached. You need to remove the pulpit. The good news is that you do not need to worry about the appearance of the deck under the pulpit, since it is covered, unless you are really anal.
Climb into the rope locker (figure out the easiest way since you will be going in and out a lot) and use a 3/4" hole saw to cut test holes to locate damaged areas and remove rotten balsa. Do not drill through the top Fiberglass layer, only the lower one. I found that water migrated out from the 6 bolt holes securing the pulpit and the windlass holes. None went past the area above the anchor rode locker.
An allen wrench in a drill chuck will break up the spongy balsa and a shop vac will remove the the debris and water, I left the sound balsa alone. Once you remove the moisture, balsa will dry just fine, though it does take a week or three. Once I knew the patern of the damage I also drilled access holes throught the deck in the area under the pulpit, which help with clean out/dry the core area. The holes through the deck will be used to pour thickened epoxy to fill the voids, after first pouring unthickend epoxy to saturate the sound and now dry balsa surrounding the damaged area.

Covering the holes from below was not that difficult. The most time consuming part of the task is identifying the wet balsa and drying it.

I cut a piece of 1/4" plywood to shape to cover the area where the holes in the underside were. (this extended about 2x3 feet and included the port side bow cleat) This large piece would not fit throught the anchor locker door and had to be cut in half. I covered both pieces with "vis-queen" and used screwed the plastic covered visqueen to the underside of the deck as a mold. I used a single layer of FG cloth and thickened epoxy and applied it to the "molds" before screwing them to the underside of the deck. I painted the overhead with epoxy using a foam roller and applied the molds to this surface before the painted epoxy set up. Be sure to clean and sand the overhead so the epoxy will stick well. My overhead had dirt and mold. I also used a sander/grinder to scuff up the overhead after I cleaned it.

I only used a single layer of FG cloth to cover the underside holes. I do not think that strength is compromised by the holes. While there are quite a few underside holes there are usually at least an inch or more apart. The lower layer of the deck is fairly thin and the thickened epoxy filler should add a lot more strength vs the balsa core that it replaced. The FG cloth and epoxy paste covered the overhead just fine and I had no problem removing the molds. The overhead is not pretty, but wasn't that nice before and no one will see it.
I you would like additional details or photos, let me know.
Vincent
Lilly Marie 43 DC 1983

 

[REBrueckner]

When I replaced an old windlass with a new one I was lucky to discover that the hawser hole coring on my 1972 48YF have never been sealed...and the balsa coring a few inches around it was wet, but not mushy...I assume because there was salt present which suppresses mold/rot etc. I removed the wet coring, left a 25 watt bulb there for a week under a cover to be sure everything was dry...

Before refastensing everything I coated the hawser hole and all bolt holes with epoxy resin before reassembly....

Working upside down underneath is a beeeeach!!!! A alternative consideration might be to work from the top and down and do all the reassembly work except the final top fiberglass..hire an expert do that last 10% or so fit and finish....or maybe pay such an expert for an hour's advice so you can do it.....

 

[yachtsmanbill]

So the odyssey begins this morning...
Last week i cut out the bad spot on the roof behind the flybridge to find the balsa coring soaking wet. It had become detached from the upper skin and was still secured to the bottom. It took a wonder-bar and a hammer to remove the stuff.
On advise from a professional glass guy, instead or using balsa in the repair, I will use two pieces of MARINE GRADE plywood
(not from the HOMO!). The core is 1" so I will hafta laminate TWO scored pieces of 1/2" to match the curve, clamped together until the resin sets, then fit the piece into the void. The old void needs to be cleaned well, to accept the wetting out and installation of the new plug.
Pics to follow this evening! ws

 

[spindrift]

Dear Vincent

Thank you for your detailied explanation of the repair on your yacht. It makes more sense to me now. In the past, I used a piece of high density pvc in the bow of my 38 one ton race boat. I backed the bolts in the toe rail off, make a template and then through bolted the high denisty pvc from side to side in the bow after backing it throughout with 3M 5200. That did the trick and really stiffened the bow up.

In this case, I might be tempted to put an oversize piece of high denisty pvc across the underside of the fordeck in the chain locker. I don't think it could be through bolted (other than where the fasteners for the pulpit and windlass come through). Thus, I would have to depend on a 2 part epoxy to form the principal bond. I think the high denisty PVC would resist rot (unlike the plywood) and add some rigidity to the foredeck. I think the PVC would have to be braced from underneath until the epoxy cured.

By the way, I don't want to take credit for the high denisty PVC technique. The project manager at Little Harbor (now Hinckley) came up with this idea. It has been used with very good success by them.

Your thoughts on this ?

Spin

 

[Vincentc]

PVC sounds like an interesting material to use. I've used 1 x 4 PVC House trim (trex?) for a few things on the boat and like it although it flexes a lot.
I am not clear regarding how you plan on using it to stiffen the deck. Do you intend on cutting the lower FG skin, removing the wet balsa core and replacing it all with a sheet of PVC?
Or do you simply attach the pvc to the underside of the deck leaving the balsa in place? With the latter, assuming epoxy sticks to pvc you could coat the topside of the PVC with an epoxy paste and screw the pvc to the underside of the deck but the upper deck would still be soft.

I assume you plan on removing the lower skin and balsa core. Working overhead with a skill saw, and pulling away the lower skin where there is still sound balsa sound like more work than what I did. The biggest difficulty I had was the learning curve. A hole saw punches through the lower skin pretty quickly. I figured out that holding a shop vac hose next to the saw as I drilled save a lot of FG particles from getting on and in me. Removing the plugs from the hole saw does slow you down. Once everyting is cleaned out and dry, sealing off the underside holes was pretty simple and pouring the deck full of thickened epoxy was no problem. Unless I am missing something I would save the PVC for other uses.
Regards,
Vincent
Lilly Marie
43 DC