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So what's all wrong with this 53'

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jaxfishgyd
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A broker friend of mine tells me that her refit is a real "Home Cheapo" job. The price seems right though.
 
It doesn't look bad in the pictures if you can get past the flooring. I also don't think most of the Admirals would go for having that little undercounter refrigerator.

She also needs some dodger boards around the aft deck. Might be worth a look, though, if you're in the market for an early 53MY.
 
The pics look great! Real original and quite a few electronics to go with her. probably nothing outstanding but for the price of a 24 ft Sea Ray, I'd say bid and sea trial! Good Luck
Craig
 
SeaEric would know better than I, but from what I understand, the market for older project boats is non-existent. It doesn't look bad from the pictures, but I'll bet there is a ton of work still to be done and some "refitting" that needs to be undone. One thing unusual for a 1972, it has Ti's, if the listing is correct.
 
There is NO financing available for any 1972 boat, unless the borrower can prove cash assets far in excess of the loan amount (ie no need to borrow the $$) That said, there are still cash buyers based upon live ability of an old 53. From what I'm told, there will need to be some "updates" of questionable quality and style that perhaps need to be fine tuned or un-done. I have not been aboard this boat, but my source on the info of her appearance/condition is one that I trust. Its still a lot of cubic footage of Hatt for the price.

The big question is: How much better a 53 is out there for $20K more? One of these boats can "eat" $20K for lunch. If there's a better one for the difference, buy the better one.
 
Eric, please generalize the loan situation for older Hatteras boats, such as no loans for older than XX year boats, maximum loan length in years, % down required, interest rates, etc.

Assuming the borrower has decent credit ratings. Just curious.

Thanks,

Pete
 
15 year old boat or newer- 20% down, no income verification needed (on a limited basis) for under $100K loans with a 720+ credit score borrower.
I'm sure you can find a nice used Carver that will fit that parameter.

In general, 20 years is a max boat age for loan collateral. There are a very few lenders that will stretch to a 30 year old boat of quality name build.

All of these loans likely will require: 720+ credit score, Full income verification (2+ years tax returns), a personal financial statement to include liquid asset verification, a verified 20% down payment.

Any boat over 30 years old- No boat loan unless you collateralize it with cash.

We have lately seen rates between 6.5% and near 10%. Terms 10-15-20 years depending upon loan amount.
 
Well...I was afraid that would be the new reality of boat finance.

It really does not bode well for affectionados of classic Hatts.

To buy a pre 1989 vintage, most will need to pay cash. However, those few with over $100k in discretionary savings are likely to opt of something other than a classic Hatt. So who will be buying these 70's & 80's boats and at what price?

We're going to have to be creative going forward. I expect to see owner financing offered on more & more boats for sale.
 
I would not opt for owner financing. The risk is way too high of someone taking the boat, neglecting/abusing it, stopping payments, going through repossession, and then having a trashed boat you can not resell. So for some of us it is already a cash deal or enjoy the boat. Definitely the time to have the boat you want and enjoy it.

The follow on question is, as some of these boats get to 40+ years old, have a market value approaching zero, and can not be insured; what happens to them. What happens to a Hatteras when it reaches end of economic life? Parted out and the fiberglass goes to the dump?

Pete
 
Pete said:
The risk is way too high of someone taking the boat, neglecting/abusing it, stopping payments, going through repossession, and then having a trashed boat you can not resell.
Pete
Click to expand...

Pete, The banks agree with you.

The abandoned fiberglass boats in our yard get cut up or crushed by a backhoe. In bite sized pieces they get put in containers and hauled to the landfill.

We have had a few (that still float) get sold for little $$ as non running live aboards.
 
Passages said:
Well...I was afraid that would be the new reality of boat finance.

It really does not bode well for affectionados of classic Hatts.
Click to expand...


The price of an older Hatt is now significantly lower, even if the value is still the same. Financing drove everything over the past 5-10 years up---home sales, car sales, boat sales...or shall I say bubble sales.

Combine that with the fact that many of the people that COULD pay cash are now struggling to hold on to what they have.

Good for the buyer, bad for the seller. Wonder when the banks will realize that they need to eat their loss on the upside down boats and move them before they rot away. They haven't figured that out with houses yet.
 
krush said:
Wonder when the banks will realize that they need to eat their loss on the upside down boats and move them before they rot away. They haven't figured that out with houses yet.
Click to expand...
Most banks realize this but are reluctant to take the loss. We recently looked at a house that is in a short sale situation. The bank is willing to take 950K on a 1.2mil note. Still cheaper than if they foreclose and have to carry the house until it sells. There are plenty of similar deals out there and I'm sure if you look, you'll find them on boats too. Problem with short sales and repos with boats is there often are yard and mechanics bills that need to be paid. Banks rarely understand the cost of holding a big boat. Years ago I was at a marina that the bank sent a repo guy to pick up a 42' Mathews. The owner of the yard had hauled the boat and refused to launch or move it until the yard bills were paid. Bank sent the repo man to get the boat with a pick up and a trailer. Needless to say the boat sat in the shed until all bills were paid in full.
 
I was successful in closing a short sale on a boat this spring. Let me assure you that IT WAS NOT EASY. The bankers are hard heads! Even with our deal accepted and letters of agreement in writing from 2 different officers of the bank, they still did not want to release the lien. Loan Dept: "Well, the payoff is short! Send us the rest and we will release it!" Uh, we have an agreement- "We don't know ANYTHING about ANY agreement" 2 months later, (sweating bullets, sleepless nights) we had the release. BTW, the bank sent an IRS Form 1099 to the seller for the shortfall. He now owes "income" tax on the amount the bank wrote off. If the bank thought he had assets, they would have pursued him for the unpaid amount.

There are plenty of nice, well maintained boats at fair prices. Find one of those and buy it. Forget repos and boats in distress.
 
Whoa - Eric, stop the press!!!

How the heck can a bank generate a 1099 income statement for someone who is purchasing a boat for less than the outstanding note. Current market value and outstanding balance are not the same thing.

Shame on the bank for loaning too much, but it certainly should not be at the expense of the buyer. I would appeal this to the IRS.
 
they will give the note holder a 1099 for the difference between what they net from the sale of the boat and the actual amount owed.

ex. note amount 100k - 80k short sale price = 20k taxable liabilty as normal income.

it is happening on short sale houses all the time.
 
the 1099 is going to the "seller" of the boat, not to the new owner. the 1099 is for the "forgiven" balance which is now seen as income by the IRS.
 
Pete said:
The follow on question is, as some of these boats get to 40+ years old, have a market value approaching zero, and can not be insured; what happens to them. What happens to a Hatteras when it reaches end of economic life? Parted out and the fiberglass goes to the dump?

Pete
Click to expand...


I took a 1973 53c, completely rebuilt it, had it carefully surveyed, applied for a new hull number and made it a "new boat".
 
"The follow on question is, as some of these boats get to 40+ years old, have a market value approaching zero, and can not be insured; what happens to them. What happens to a Hatteras when it reaches end of economic life? Parted out and the fiberglass goes to the dump?"

thsi is prboably true about carvers, sea rays, silvertons, bayliners, etc... yes, the dumpster is the only route

when it comes to well built boats (Hatteras, old bertrams, etc...) i don't think they will ever get to 0 market value because as long as teh systems are maintained they still offer an incredible value.

"However, those few with over $100k in discretionary savings are likely to opt of something other than a classic Hatt."

like what? a $150k 5 year old Carver 40 footer? i doubt it...
 
There are plenty of old worn out Hatts with zero value. The current cost of refit dictates this fact.
 
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