selling without a broker

[roundIII]

Might have to give this plan up and go with a broker.

Two times now I have had buyers interested enough to view boat several times and then arrange for a survey. Asked them both to sign a simple purchase agreement stating agreed price, small refundable deposit and 24 hr. decision window after sea trail. Both times neither would sign and that was with the surveyor standing there with them. I told them both that I thought going any further was a waste of time. Was I unreasonable?

 

[Passages]

You are getting traffic so perhaps a broker is not essential.

Take another look at the purchase agreement language. That might be where you are getting hung up. It should have some reasonable exit clauses for the buyer. I believe the length of time given for buyer declination should be extended to 3 days. This is a big purchase for the buyer and they may be scared off by an iron clad contract.

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

24 hours is completely unreasonable. It doesn't allow time to evaluate the trial. Oil samples, expedited, would fall outside your window. How about the time to generate a survey report? Why would someone place such a stipulation unless there was something to hide would be a reasonable conclusion of a buyer. Why would you do anything to fuel the nervousness of someone who thinks enough of your boat to hire a surveyor? I would wonder if my deposit was really refundable as opposed to confidence of a refund through a broker.

 

[roundIII]

I should have added that on one of these times the surveyor had already done the static survey two days before ( 4 hours at boat) and had reported to potential buyer all was good. I had this document ready the morning they showed up for sea trail. Before that I required no deposit or agreement. The surveyor said he could have the sea trial survey done that afternoon and back to potential buyer. This is a $45,000 boat, not a huge deal. Potential buyer had looked at boat several times, had seen all the records and had no reason to suspect anything was a miss with getting his deposit back. If a broker had this boat would the requirements to sign an agreement with deposit before sea trail not be fulfilled?

 

[Boatsb]

Brokers usually use a standard contract that makes it easier to sell to the buyer. Everyone does it this way is a pretty easy explanation.

I found that I was getting 25% better offers on listed boats than I heard private sellers were getting so I didn't see a benefit to doing it yourself. Then again as a broker I invested time and money to market so it added a value.

 

[Freeebird]

I've sold dozens of boats over the years and never required a written contract or a deposit. I can see where that would be a huge turnoff to a potential buyer. I assume the buyer is going to the expense of having the boat surveyed. That would certainly prove to me that they are serious if that's the case. If they walk afterward, you're out some time and a few gallons of fuel. If they want to sea trial the boat before having it surveyed (I would), let them. You should be able to qualify them to the point of weeding out dreamers.

Refundable deposits are nothing more than a show of good faith. Drop that and the contract and see what happens. I'm sorry, but listing your boat with a broker isn't going to increase its value. Depending on how extensively you have advertised FSBO, you can't very well up your price and expect to offset commissions. There are obviously exceptions to that as brokers can reach audiences that you can't.

Just my two cents.

 

[krush]

You stated yourself that it's a $45k transaction. What the heck are you making it a PITA for? The dude paid a surveyor, so he obviously wasn't looking for a free boat ride.

Give them the time to analyze the report and decide, and then meet them at the bank to wire the money and you sign over the title or documentation. What is so difficult?

Sometimes in life, when problems occur, we need to be sure the root cause isn't the guy in the mirror...especially if said problem keeps occurring. I know I cause many (maybe most) issues in my life LOL!

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

I should have added that on one of these times the surveyor had already done the static survey two days before ( 4 hours at boat) and had reported to potential buyer all was good. I had this document ready the morning they showed up for sea trail.

That sounds an awful lot like you hired the surveyor. I doubt their surveyor would have given you the report, especially in advance. If I paid a surveyor and he gave the report to anyone but me, I'd be looking for another chap. If the surveyor was your surveyor then, in my opinion, any report would have to be given little weight by a buyer.

 

[roundIII]

Good advice all. Definitely could be as much my problem as theirs.

I just know that when I went to buy this boat and the last two boats thru a broker I had to sign everything, place a deposit and arrange for every thing myself.

My problem was/is that getting someone to commit to an agreed price BEFORE sea trial, committing to a reasonable closing date, all things being equal seemed to be the sticking point.

I just think that these two buyers were not that serious even with arranging for a surveyor. Having a surveyor without an agreed price or deposit makes no sense. $45,000, not enough for me to get to annoyed.

 

[roundIII]

That sounds an awful lot like you hired the surveyor. I doubt their surveyor would have given you the report, especially in advance. If I paid a surveyor and he gave the report to anyone but me, I'd be looking for another chap. If the surveyor was your surveyor then, in my opinion, any report would have to be given little weight by a buyer.

Not my surveyor, buyer's surveyor.

 

[Passages]

As you can read in my other thread, I am pursuing the purchase of a 63' MY.

To date, I have been on board 3 times, we did an informal sea trial with the owner and set an agreed purchase price - all without a contract or deposit. The broker sent me a draft contract this morning but I'm not signing until I get finance approval.

As stated above, you have no downside risk other than some time and a few gallons of fuel. The buyer needs to feel he is not being rushed into a decision.

 

[captddis]

I made a post and poof.

Things have changed and no one shakes hands in the cockpit and exchanges keys and checks.

You will need a lot of paitence!!!!!!
I sold a Chris Craft on Ebay 6 years ago.
Had fifteen thousand. hits The guy without a clue who kept on asking silly questions one day sent a check fed ex. He did not see the boat.

I got him a slip and ran the boat to the new slip.

When he flew in and I gave him keys and took for a ride the next day

You never know, but you deal with a lot of kooks.

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

I just know that when I went to buy this boat and the last two boats thru a broker I had to sign everything, place a deposit and arrange for every thing myself.

My problem was/is that getting someone to commit to an agreed price BEFORE sea trial, committing to a reasonable closing date, all things being equal seemed to be the sticking point.

I just think that these two buyers were not that serious even with arranging for a surveyor. Having a surveyor without an agreed price or deposit makes no sense. $45,000, not enough for me to get to annoyed.

Apples and oranges. You buy through a broker you play by industry rules.

Can't speak for anyone other than me, but if I paid a surveyor to survey I am a serious buyer.

But what's the point of a survey if you insist on a commitment on price before a trial? If this isn't a fire sale you'd have to be crazy to do that. You and the customer agree on a sales price contingent on a number of things before moving forward as reflected by a percentage of that figure in the form of a deposit; e.g, clear title, closing date, insurability, new title work, dockage, survey(s), etc. If this is an as is where is deal then you're correct. If not, expect a buyer to want to knock off some based on the items listed above.

I think the real problem is your 24 hour deadline. I think anyone who hires a marine surveyor (hull, engine or both) is, by definition, serious and expects to show good faith by putting some money on the table. $45K is at the bottom of range for these boats, but $45k is likely a real stretch for the potential buyers. A Chevy customer wants to feel they are being catered to just as much as a Mercedes customer--In other words, don't rush me.

 

[roundIII]

This was/is an "as is" sale. This was known before, during and any talks that we had. An greed upon price and deposit is for my protection. Surveyors start going thru your boat, then a sea trail, haul out, compression check, blah, blah, blah.

Where were all you kind understanding sellers each time I bought a boat? If any of the persons who responded to this thread would allow a strange surveyor, strange buyer to come on board, start the survey process, do a sea trial and haulout without an agreement and or a deposit then let me be the first to say you are nicer boat owners than I am. Obviously you have dealt with a different buyer/seller than me.

So, let me understand if I have this straight. If you were selling your boat "as is", you would not require an agreement on purchase price, you would not require a deposit, you would allow a surveyor to go thru your boat, sea trial, haul out and take certain parts of your boats apart? You would fully expect to start the negotiation process after all this was done? I think not.

Maybe I was wrong about the amount of time I wanted a final decision but that's about it. How long does it take to make a decision like this? Either you want the boat or not.

 

[JLR]

I have bought and sold many boats. I even sold one on ebay. However, when selling my most rcent boats, I always used a broker and had very specific rules to keep away the tire kickers. The rules were very simple. First, nothing gets turned on the boat, including the engines and electronics, unless a deposit has been received by the broker. Second, any "ride" takes place as part of the sea trial and only after the boat has been hauled and surveyed at the buyer's expense. Third, if the buyer is asking silly questions of the broker like what is the top speed of my 56MY or where is the central vac on my 43 express, do not waste my time by making any counter-offers to an opening buyer's offer. And, lastly an "as/is" deal sounds great uintil you get emotionally invested in the sale at which point the price always seems to be negotiable if either my time or emotional energy has been spent getting the boat ready for the survey (washing, waxing, bottom cleaned, etc.)

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

Maybe I was wrong about the amount of time I wanted a final decision but that's about it. How long does it take to make a decision like this? Either you want the boat or not.

Everyone is different.

 

[SEVEN]

I sold my last two Chris-Craft without a broker. It is a pain in the butt when potential buyers make an appointment and don't show up. Especially after you drove two hours to the boat worked two hours on dusting it off and making it look pretty for somebody not to show up. However I did sell both of them without a broker and put a few more bucks in my pocket, I and the buyers were extremely happy.

 

[roundIII]

Understood but the burning question is did you allow a surveyor, sea trail and haul out without an agreement on price and a deposit BEFORE the survey, haul out and sea trail or did you just wing it no communication whatsoever about pricing or responsibility if surveyor broke something, etc.

Was there an agreement about how long the buyer got to make the final decision?

 

[Freeebird]

Good advice all. Definitely could be as much my problem as theirs.

I just know that when I went to buy this boat and the last two boats thru a broker I had to sign everything, place a deposit and arrange for every thing myself.

My problem was/is that getting someone to commit to an agreed price BEFORE sea trial, committing to a reasonable closing date, all things being equal seemed to be the sticking point.

I just think that these two buyers were not that serious even with arranging for a surveyor. Having a surveyor without an agreed price or deposit makes no sense. $45,000, not enough for me to get to annoyed.

You have to remember, a broker works on commission, and there are only so many hours in a day. They're not going to take the time to qualify buyers for you, hence the contracts and deposits. Even then, it's still a crapshoot for them.

Having an agreed price pending sea trial and survey doesn't mean jack ship. ANY buyer WILL find something wrong with your boat and will expect a price adjustment. As with a refundable deposit, you can't hold anybody to an agreed price. You'll either come to terms with the buyer, or you/they walk. That holds true whether you use a broker or not. Nobody in their right mind will sign a contract on a boat without an out, and for good reason.

Bottom line is, you either have the time and ability to sell this on your own, or you list it with a broker who does this for a living. No offense, but having read all your posts, I think you need a broker. Again, my two cents.

 

[Passages]

I agree with Freebird.

I signed the contract today but I have many opportunities to walk prior to final acceptance.
The broker even agreed to my request that no deposit is required until financing is approved.

From a buyers perspective, I need the piece of mind that I am not putting myself at risk due to unforeseen problems. When she goes to survey, I will expect a price adjustment for any significant findings. If a turbo is chaffing a bearing, I expect a rebuild credit. If a light bulb is burned out, section of gelcoat is fading or other cosmetic, that's on me.